2009
Legislative Session: First Session, 39th Parliament
HOUSE BLUES
This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.
(HANSARD)
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2009
The House met at 1:36 p.m.
[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]
Routine Business
Introductions by Members
Hon. G. Campbell: Joining us today in the gallery are representatives of the B.C. branch of the Last Post Fund. The Last Post Fund is a national non-profit organization that works to ensure that all veterans in Canada receive a funeral, burial and grave marker befitting someone who has defended our shared freedoms. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In honour of the 100th anniversary of the Last Post Fund, we are proud to be proclaiming November 5 as Last Post Fund Day in British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I hope the Legislature will join me in welcoming retired Maj.-Gen. Ed Fitch, the branch vice-president; retired Col. Sam Dunbar, the branch president; retired Col. Don McLellan, an honorary member; Mr. Ron Rowdon, the manager; Howardeena Kembel-McGrory, senior counsel; and her husband, Shawn McGrory. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Thank you for all the work you do in honouring our veterans. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
L. Reid: Today in our gallery we are have representatives of Equal Voice. Today was the British Columbia launch of Equal Voice, which is a process that is all about engaging young women, young girls in the democratic process — how they might wish to become involved. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have lots of guests here with us today, and I want to thank my colleague from North Island for assisting in the hosting of this lovely group of souls. We have Amanda Reaume, Carolyn Jack, Janet Wiegand, Jodi Robertson, Laura Mcleod, Kristine Zellweger, Catherine McGregor, Slaine Sutherland, Siobhan Powlowski, Jocelyn Jones, Annie Do, Ariana Moragh, Jordon Watson, Breanna Aslett, Bethany McElvaine, Puja Bates, Jenn Bowie, Jen Wizinksy, Corrina Shanga, Kati-Raven George-Jim, Kieran McCabe-Gregg, Katherine Charlesworth, Siobhan Mcarthur and Elizabeth Kuroyedov. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Our sponsors today: Katherine Rio from TD Canada Trust and Patrick Lauzon from Merck Frosst. Also represented are the Girl Guides of Canada, by Alex McKenzie and Daphne McGregor-Grier. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I would ask the House to join me in offering the finest welcome ever. Thanks to all the colleagues who joined with us today in the Ned DeBeck. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
K. Conroy: I want to introduce a group who will actually be arriving in the Legislature later today. SOS The Americas is a campaign of over a thousand students who will relay the Torch of Life throughout 36 countries in the Americas, promoting the importance of organ and tissue donations. This is a two-year journey that started in Alaska on October 24 of this year and will end in Argentina on October 24, 2011. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The odyssey is sponsored by Step by Step, a charitable organization created by George Marcello in 1997. George, a recipient of a life-saving liver transplant himself, has spearheaded this journey in many other countries, with this being his seventh campaign. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Students from Victoria High, with George, will be arriving at the Legislature at approximately three o'clock, carrying the famous Torch of Life. Victoria is the third city of 277 cities to be visited in the two-year student torch trek. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I encourage all members of the House to join me now, and outside at three o'clock, in welcoming these young people and the torch to the Legislature today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. Coell: Visiting in the precinct today and seated in the gallery is Lisa Tinney, senior account manager for the main branch of the Royal Bank of Canada here in Victoria. Would the House please make her welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. R. Hawes: In the gallery today is Mr. Normand Chevrier. He's from Eurocopter. Eurocopter manufactures about 51 percent of the helicopters sold worldwide. He's here to talk to MLAs about the use of those helicopters in British Columbia. Could the House please make Normand welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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N. Letnick: It was also my pleasure to be present at lunch with the Equal Voice crowd. Just to say that in my previous life as a city councillor, the mayor was a woman, and the boss of me as a college student — my dean, Jayne Brooks — was also a woman. I've had many women in my life who have taken the lead. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With that segue, I'd like to introduce the first woman that's led me, and I'll stop right there: my mom, who's in the gallery, Marie-Claire Letnick from White Rock, and her friend Elizabeth Budge. Would the House please make them feel welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. S. Thomson: Joining us in the gallery today will be five representatives of B.C.'s Young Farmers. I had a chance to meet with them this morning. It's an organization that helps promote a positive future for farming in B.C. Young Farmers organizations meet, and they network together and run education programs. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
From the Fraser Valley are Ravi Cheema, Myles Redekop, Steven Redicopp and David Mutz, and from Nanoose on Vancouver Island is Ross Springford. He is working to establish a Vancouver Island chapter of B.C. Young Farmers. I would ask the House to make them welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. P. Bell: It's not often I get to introduce someone from my constituency, but joining us in the gallery today is Dennis Jackson, who's a great campaigner, a great friend and a great advocate for Prince George. I'd ask the House to please make him very welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have one other brief introduction. Normand Chevrier was already introduced from Eurocopter. They also produce a variety of firefighting devices that can be utilized in initial attack crews. Certainly, we're looking forward to working with them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Also joining Mr. Chevrier is Steve Vander Wal, who was a previous ministerial assistant for what was then the Minister of Advanced Education, if memory serves me correctly. I've noticed that Steve has lost that nasty tic that he used to have when he was around here. I'd ask the House please make Steve very welcome as well. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
C. Trevena: I'd like to make two introductions. I'd like to join the member for Richmond East in welcoming Equal Voice. It's a show that we can get many more women, many more young people involved in politics. I think it would be very healthy to do so. I'm very pleased that Equal Voice came to the Legislature and that the member for Richmond East hosted the luncheon and that other members came. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I also have noticed in the gallery a person from my own constituency, Hugh Smith, who was working with Campbell River television and now works with Shaw TV. He is in the gallery today. I hope that the House will make him very welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. I. Chong: I am pleased to acknowledge today another school group from my riding of Oak Bay–Gordon Head that is visiting. They're in the precincts and will be joining us shortly, I'm sure, to watch question period. They are from Hillcrest Elementary School. There are 35 visitors — 27 grade 4 students and eight adults. They're led by Miss Claire Mullen. I hope the House will acknowledge them by making them very welcome as they make their appearance shortly. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Statements
(Standing Order 25B)
GROUNDWATER PROTECTION
D. Routley: I rise today to speak of groundwater protection issues on the islands of the south coast. Groundwater is often the only practical, viable and economic source of water supply for community as well as individual water systems. Groundwater also augments agricultural and industrial uses. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Canada we possess 7 percent of the world's total renewable freshwater supply. In B.C. groundwater provides 23 percent of our population with their drinking water. Groundwater provides 9 percent of the total water consumption in our province. In B.C. groundwater consumption accounts for 25 percent of the total groundwater use in Canada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On Vancouver Island and the south Gulf Islands we are facing a groundwater crisis. Many who had water in their wells are losing it, and many who seek it can't find it. Complications include residential development expansion, climate change and habitat damage through pesticides and other pollutants. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Groundwater often maintains the base flows in streams and rivers during periods of drought and is critical to fisheries habitat and spawning areas. An ever-increasing population brings an increased demand in reliance on groundwater as well as an increased responsibility to sustainably manage and protect this critical resource. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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The biggest crowds come out to public meetings that address groundwater issues and the developments that implicate its quality and supply. All residents of B.C., particularly those on Vancouver Island and the southern Gulf Islands, recognize the need to address groundwater protection. We have many pressures to balance. We have many rights deserving respect. We have many complications to untangle, but we have an overwhelming obligation to act to manage and protect our groundwater resource for the benefit of all future generations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
community fund for
veterans' memorials
G. Hogg: The founder of the Last Post Fund, veteran Arthur Hair, said: "To honour and protect in death seems but a small return to those who protected their country in life." In Montreal in 1909, motivated by a powerful sense of patriotism, he is reported to have moved heaven and earth to ensure that no indigent soldiers would be buried without respect and dignity. That singular act of compassion was the launch of an incredible national organization which has lived by the same principles for the past 100 years: the principles of dignity, compassion and respect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In cooperation with Veteran Affairs Canada, the Last Post Fund ensures that no eligible veteran is deprived of a dignified funeral, burial or headstone. Over the past century the Last Post Fund has arranged funerals for over 145,000 veterans. They honour those who have served our country, and they keep the memories of their service alive for future generations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There are still approximately 3,000 unmarked veterans' graves in British Columbia, and each of us can assist in ensuring that those veterans' contributions are remembered with the deference and appreciation which they so richly deserve. As Arthur Hair said: "The Last Post Fund is not a charity. It is a duty." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I ask this Legislature to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the Last Post Fund, to congratulate its members and to thank them for the important work that they have done and continue to do on behalf of all Canadians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
kinuko laskey
J. Kwan: On October 24, I attended the unveiling of a bronze memorial statue dedicated to peace activist and educator Kinuko Laskey at the Seaforth Peace Park. She's one of the few, if not the only, first immigrant Asian-Canadian woman to be honoured in the province of B.C. in this way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Kinuko Laskey was a survivor of the Hiroshima nuclear bombing on August 6, 1945. At the time she was a 16-year-old student nurse and was less than two kilometres away from the hypocentre. As a result, she suffered from radiation sickness, loss of sight in her right eye and underwent many plastic surgery operations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
She immigrated to Canada and settled in Vancouver with her husband, David, in 1953. Kinuko's personal experience of the horrors of nuclear warfare prompted her to actively promote peace in schools, within our communities and across the globe. She was a founding member of the Canadian Society of Atomic Bomb Survivors. She delivered a message of peace to Vancouver's Expo 86, and in 1987 she co-lit the Vancouver Centennial Peace Monument flame with former Mayor Mike Harcourt at Seaforth Peace Park, the same park where her statue now stands. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Her dedication was an inspiration to many, including artist Keith Shields, who donated the beautiful sculpture of Kinuko Laskey for this memorial, and to the members of the Vancouver and District Labour Council, who are also strong supporters of social justice and the peace movement and are the sponsors of the memorial project. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Kinuko passed away on the third of November 2004, but the memory of her work continues. I would like to ask all members of the House to recognize Kinuko Laskey for her contributions and to reflect on her words and wishes that we must all be tolerant and respect each other, and we must know how important peace is to each and every one of us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
burnaby business excellence awards
H. Bloy: On Wednesday night, November 4, the Burnaby Board of Trade will present their Business Excellence Awards. Burnaby is blessed with a great variety of outstanding entrepreneurs and businesses, and every year many outstanding businesses and companies are nominated for awards. This year is no different. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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This is the tenth annual award ceremony, and 19 companies are nominated in six different categories. A few of the companies are nominated in more than one category: Soyaworld for Business of the Year and Entrepreneurial Spirit awards; Costco Wholesale Ltd. for Business of the Year and Burnaby Community Spirit awards; Centaur Products Inc. for Business of the Year and Community Spirit awards; Dimensions 3 Plastics Ltd., which is up for Small Business of the Year and Business Innovation award; and Can Am Importique, which is up for Small Business of the Year and Burnaby Community Spirit awards. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Four individuals are finalists for Business Person of the Year: Adriana Furnaro of Julian Ceramic Tile Inc., Jack Kuyer of Valley Bakery Ltd., Paul Smolen of Hart House Restaurant and John Zaplatynsky of GardenWorks. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Finally, there are four finalists for the Not-for-Profit Organization of the Year: Cameray Child and Family Services, Charlford House Society for Women, RCMP Hastings Brentwood community police office and S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Employment Services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
All of the finalists for this year's Burnaby Business Excellence Awards are very deserving, and I wish all members to congratulate them on their success and Burnaby for the place to do business. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
COMMUNITY SOCIAL SERVICES WORKERS
S. Simpson: On November 6 people across Canada will be celebrating the second annual Community Social Services Workers Appreciation Day. The purpose of this day is to recognize the invaluable job that thousands of workers in British Columbia and across the country perform on behalf of their neighbours. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This day recognizes those who work for people with developmental disabilities, for women and children who are fleeing domestic violence, as addiction counsellors or those who deliver aboriginal services and child care, to name only a few critical areas. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This recognition was initiated by the National Union of Public and General Employees, the BCGEU's national counterpart, and has grown, with many other unions joining in — like CUPE, Health Sciences Association and HEU, along with a number of national advocacy groups. It has also seen many cities across Canada, including Victoria, adopting proclamations acknowledging these workers and the valuable jobs they perform. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Thousands and thousands of British Columbians deliver these services every day. Many of them work for the provincial government, others for municipalities and towns, as well as for the non-profit sector. They make our social contract work. They do it, generally, for modest wages and benefits compared to many career areas. Almost without exception, these workers would tell you that it isn't about the money; it's about their commitment to a civil society and their belief that we have a shared obligation to each other as neighbours and citizens. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Community Social Services Workers Appreciation Day is a modest opportunity to acknowledge these true heroes in our communities, the people who step up to make our lives better, safer, healthier and richer, often with little recognition and too often too little economic security for themselves and their families. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Every member of this Legislature knows the people in their community who are these champions, and I urge you to join me in thanking those thousands who go above and beyond the call of duty every day to improve and protect the quality of life for our constituents in every corner of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
ADOPTION AWARENESS
N. Letnick: I rise today to recognize November as Adoption Awareness Month in British Columbia. Adoption is an important way for people to build their families, and we have many children and youth still waiting for a permanent family to call their own. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There are more than 1,000 children in British Columbia alone who are in ministry care and are waiting to be adopted. Every child deserves a safe, loving home and loving parents, and Adoption Awareness Month is a time to appreciate what family truly means. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is a time to celebrate the gift of love and commitment and nurturing that family provides to help children through life's challenges. There are approximately 1,300 children in British Columbia waiting for a permanent family, with more than 600 of these ready to be adopted today. November is a time for us to recognize adoptive parents who have grown their family because they have more love to share. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is indeed the reason why 13 years ago our family of four decided to adopt Naomi when she was only two years of age. Naomi has become another shining light in our lives, bringing love to our family and parental pride. She may have been delivered to us through adoption, but like our two other children, she is a gift from God. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Naomi loves to play piano, guitar, organized sports, achieving outstanding school grades and asking a million questions. She says she would like to become a doctor, which her mother and I fully support. I look forward to seeing a lifetime of opportunities and being proud of Naomi's accomplishments. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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She has sung her way into our hearts, and I ask every family large or small to consider sharing their love with someone new, someone in need of a family, someone with much love and joy to give. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I encourage anyone who is interested in adopting a waiting child to call 1-877-ADOPT-07 or visit the Ministry of Children and Family Development website during this Adoption Awareness Month. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Oral Questions
LEGAL AID SERVICES
L. Krog: Today we've learned that Legal Services' budget is going to be cut by $2 million. That will have an impact all across this province. Offices are closing in Kelowna, Kamloops, Prince George, Surrey and Victoria. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At a time when B.C. families struggle and require legal services more than ever, how can the Attorney General possibly justify these cuts now? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. de Jong: Actually, he's incorrect about the funding description. Funding has actually gone up significantly this year, by almost $2 million. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But he is correct about this. The Legal Services Society faces some real pressures, largely as a result of the fact that other sources of funding — the Law Foundation, the Notary Foundation — which make contributions based on interest rates, aren't able to make the same level of contribution. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What the society is doing is exactly what we would hope they'd do, and that is to reduce administrative costs and channel as much money, as much resources, as possible to front-line services to ensure that people facing criminal charges or involved in family relations disputes have the legal support that they require. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
L. Krog: What incredible hypocrisy. In 2001-2002 the legal aid budget was $96 million. It's $74 million this year. If that isn't a cut, I don't know what is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Just yesterday, not 50 feet from this chamber, we honoured his predecessor, Wally Oppal, for, amongst other things, opening the Justice Access Centre in Nanaimo. The first anniversary of that centre is November 6, three days from now. It's going to be closed as a result of these cuts. The access to civil law across this province is essentially gone. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to hear from this Attorney General again. What is he going to do to help all those working families in British Columbia who rely on legal aid? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. de Jong: Actually, the member is wrong again. The centre is not closing. What the society is doing is recognizing something that I think the hon. member actually knows, which is that a service delivery model built around agents, as opposed to regional offices that have very high overhead costs, will actually accomplish just that — providing legal services, actual lawyer assistance, to the people that need it most. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Difficult decisions — to the people affected, I think in excess of 50, obviously very difficult. But the principle, and the priority, is to provide legal assistance to the people that need it most. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
L. Krog: The government has directed that the Legal Services Society can't access their accumulated surplus in order to meet the genuine and real needs today of people who require legal services in British Columbia. So I'd like for the Attorney General to explain to this House why denying them the ability to access a surplus, to continue to deliver much-needed services to families in British Columbia, is good government policy. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. de Jong: Actually, the member is wrong again. Look, these are difficult decisions that the Legal Services Society is taking, brought on by the reality of reduced resources from a number of sources — not government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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But there are pressures, and what the society is doing, in my view, is absolutely the right thing — looking at its administrative costs, reducing them where it is at all possible and channelling those resources into front-line services to ensure that people have the legal assistance they require. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
S. Simpson: The reality is a $22 million budget cut since '01-02 in terms of the legal aid services; five offices will close in this province; a number of critical services that are provided for community advocates and others will be shut down — all of these things that affect our most vulnerable citizens, those ones who cannot afford to go out and pay a lawyer. How on earth is this fairness and equity from this government when those are the services that this minister allows to be cut? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. de Jong: Well, here's what the Legal Services Society says in the material they released today. "The changes" — and they are changes — "are part of a long-term strategy to reduce our administrative costs and focus spending on the services we provide to low-income people." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is exactly what they should be doing. At a time when all of us are challenged with finite resources, they are opting for a model of service delivery that is 30 to 50 percent more efficient. That means more people, not less, will have the legal assistance they require — difficult, but precisely the right thing to do at this time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: Member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
S. Simpson: "Unbelievable" is the only word to describe this minister's comments. Tell that to the people in Kelowna, in Kamloops, in Prince George, in Surrey or in Victoria, where those offices are closed and they can't be accessed by those people anymore. Explain to people how 22 million less dollars for services for legal aid since this government came to power is good for those vulnerable people. It is unbelievable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Will this Attorney General stand up and for once say: "Vulnerable people, poor people matter, and we will restore that funding"? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. de Jong: Well, therein probably lies the difference. I actually have never met a single mother in need of legal assistance who has said to me: "Boy, I wish you had a couple of extra offices." You know what they say to me? They say: "I need legal help. I need a lawyer to help me." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Just take your seat, Minister. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Continue, Attorney. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. de Jong: The member may prioritize a building ahead of the people that deliver the services. We do not. More importantly in this case, the Legal Services Society does not. They are opting for a more efficient front-line service delivery model. I think it's the right thing to do. At the same time, I recognize that for about 50 people involved, it is a difficult decision. But for the people who require legal aid in this province, it is the right decision. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
PUBLIC HEALTH SERVICES
IN SMITHERS AREA
D. Donaldson: In the middle of the H1N1 outbreak we have learned that next week public health nurses who would be administering the vaccine in Smithers will be laid off. Why does the Minister of Health support cutting the jobs of the very people who are working on the front line to fight H1N1? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: Actually, medical professionals from one end of the province to the other are doing an exceptional job of delivering the H1N1 program. They're doing an exceptional job under the exceptional leadership of our chief provincial health officer. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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When we see challenges right across the country, in British Columbia I think what we see is professionals at work. We are listening to those professionals as they administer a staged program to ensure that those with high-risk needs are dealt with first as we move towards the general population. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That does not mean, Member, that there will never be any other change in the health system. It is a very large health system. But I'll tell you this. There is lots of demand for nurses in every single part of our health system, and if any become available, the health system will certainly take advantage of that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
D. Donaldson: Well, there's mounting concern in places like Smithers and around the province about the delays in receiving the H1N1 vaccine. Cutting the people who actually administer flu vaccinations adds to people's anxiety. In fact, public health nurses are a cornerstone of rural health care in all aspects, and they are stretched to the limit. Again, does the minister think laying off public health nurses is a good way to address health care issues facing our communities? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: If I understand correctly the issue that the member's talking about, what the health authority is doing is actually saying that the vaccinations that the member's talking about for people that are travelling overseas or going on vacation are less of a priority right now. The big priority is…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Hon. K. Falcon: Just a minute. I'm not finished. The members might want to hear the answer. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The priority right now is to make sure we deal with the H1N1 pandemic vaccinations and deal with vaccinations for children for polio and other vaccinations that are important. That's the decision they're making. The member may disagree with that decision. I support the medical practitioners in decisions they're making. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
A. Dix: To the Minister of Health: why does the minister support laying off public health nurses in Smithers? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: Remember, we've had this discussion before, so the member should know that there may be some displacement in Smithers, but there are also new hires in other parts of the Northern Health Authority. What they are doing is quite appropriate. They are making sure that the service levels they're providing are equivalent in all parts of the Northern Health Authority. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They are also saying that the vaccinations for people travelling overseas are not as important right now as the ones that are taking place for children that need vaccinations to deal with H1N1 or to deal with vaccinations having to do with the multiplicity of potential disease out there. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
A. Dix: Is the minister saying that he doesn't believe there's need for public health nurses in Smithers? Can the minister simply answer the question? We asked a specific question to him, a question that he seemed not to take on notice, so he claims to know the answer. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Let me ask the question again. What is the possible justification — especially at this time, when we have this issue around H1N1, which is testing the entire health system…? What possible justification is there for laying off public health nurses in Smithers? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: I thought I just answered that. What they are trying to do is make sure that there is equality of service right across the north. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, the member talks about yesterday. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Hon. K. Falcon: Yes, I know we had a member from the north coast ask a question about an audiologist. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: The answer was that that individual had retired from service, and they're trying to recruit a new individual. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
To the NDP this is the end of the world as we know it, but the member should know this, because I know they always try to fit in this idea of cuts in health care, even though the budget's going way up. The public health funding component of the Northern Health Authority — the member can go into the service plan and look — is going up 20 percent over the next three years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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H1N1 INFLUENZA
VACCINATION PROGRAM
J. Brar: Now in the second week this government response to H1N1 continues to generate confusion and frustration. Reports are coming that the Interior Health Authority is not strictly giving the H1N1 vaccine to the priority groups established by the provincial health officer. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
My question again is to the minister. Can the minister explain why, at this stage of the vaccine rollout, the health authorities are not consistently following the protocols laid out by the provincial health officer? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: Well, Mr. Speaker, to be honest with you, I take offence at the question. I take offence at the question because what it is trying to do is attack some of the best medical professionals we have in the country right here in British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I would encourage the member to read some of the national newspapers today, which are talking about how British Columbia has it right. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, this is a challenging time. We are undertaking the most massive vaccination program in the history of the province of British Columbia, and we are doing it under the direction and leadership of our chief provincial health officer, Dr. Perry Kendall. He and his staff and medical health officers across the province are doing an exceptional job. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, there is strong public demand. There is concern out there, and it's understandable, but we are asking the public to be patient as they stage the delivery of the vaccinations to the at-risk populations first, while we get to the broader public population once the vaccination supplies allow. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
J. Brar: Actually, the minister proves my point. He seems to be very frustrated, too, with this process. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The Interior Health Authority is taking an approach that can allow individuals not deemed high risk to access the vaccine, whereas other health authorities are asking British Columbians to be patient and wait for their turn to receive the vaccine to allow the most vulnerable people to be protected first. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Another example. Despite being separated by Boundary Road, Vancouver Coastal and Fraser Health are still not coordinating together to deliver the vaccine in a coherent manner to the people of the Lower Mainland. The absence of such an approach creates delay and more questions about how prepared British Columbia is to fight H1N1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Again, to the minister: why is the government still not rolling out a consistent and cohesive vaccination plan? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. K. Falcon: Well, you know, I'm not even sure why we have a chief provincial health officer. Apparently, the member here for Surrey-Fleetwood has all the answers. I don't know why we wouldn't just turn over the entire program to the NDP. They apparently know a lot more than the medical experts right across the province. Rather remarkable. Rather remarkable, but as much as I respect the opinion of the member, I actually respect the opinion of medical health officers across the province a heck of a lot more than I do that member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know this. I know it is always tempting for members, based on little information and what they read in the paper, to take potshots at the medical health professionals in this province, but I can tell you this: they are doing an exceptional job for British Columbians. I support them 100 percent. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
GOVERNMENT DISTRIBUTION
OF OLYMPIC GAMES TICKETS
J. Kwan: On October 28, 2009, the Minister of Small Business said: "The distribution of whatever Olympic tickets are touched by government will be fully accounted for." Will the Minister Responsible for the Olympics confirm that she will release the plan for the distribution of the tickets immediately, and will she make public the full list of the people selected to attend the Olympics on the taxpayers' dime? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. McNeil: You know, magic happened here this weekend on Vancouver Island when the…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Hon. M. McNeil: And that magic was the landing…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1415]
Interjections.
Mr. Speaker: Minister, just take your seat. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Members.
Continue, Minister. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. McNeil: The Olympic Torch Relay started here on Friday in Victoria, and it's gone to Nanaimo, Port Alberni, Tofino, Courtenay, Duncan and all over this Island. That's just a taste of what's going to happen in this province come February. This province — which, I will remind you, is the host province for the 2010 Winter Olympic and Paralympic Games — is going to take every advantage of the greatest opportunity it has ever had for economic development and, therefore, create jobs. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's the plan. That's what we're going to be doing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
Mr. Speaker: Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
J. Kwan: Is the minister, then, saying that what the Minister of Small Business said doesn't count? Her "just be happy and trust us" message doesn't cut it with British Columbians when they want accountability. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If the minister responsible for the Olympics cannot answer the question, will the Premier stand up and tell British Columbians that he will be accountable, that they will immediately release the plan for the distribution of the Olympic tickets and that he will ensure that the full list of everyone who gets a free ticket from the government is accounted for and made public? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. McNeil: There will be a full accounting of all of these tickets when we're ready to receive it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Farnworth: Well, my question is also for the Premier, because there seems to be some confusion between the Minister of Small Business and the Minister Responsible for the Olympics. I think it's up to the Premier to clarify just which of his ministers is correct. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The Minister of Small Business stood in this House and said there would be a full accounting of who got those tickets. So the question is really clear, Premier. On the host program regarding the tickets, will the Premier stand up and commit to this House that every single one of those tickets will be accounted for, that every one of those tickets will be accounted for in the way that we know who used the tickets and who were the guests that were taken by the MLAs and cabinet ministers during the host program? Will the Premier commit to doing do that? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. McNeil: As I have said in this House and as my colleague has said in this House, there will be a full accounting of each and every ticket used. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Farnworth: This is like pulling teeth. My question to the minister is really quite simple. Will she stand in this House and commit that she will table an accounting of who used every single ticket, whether it is a minister or a cabinet minister, and which guests accompanied those ministers and cabinet ministers in the use of those tickets, and will she commit to tabling it — a date to tabling it in this House? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. M. McNeil: To avoid sounding repetitive, there will be a full accounting of each and every ticket used at the Olympic Games. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1420]
GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR
KITIMAT FOREST WORKERS
R. Austin: This government has had another 24 hours to address the crisis in Kitimat. Yesterday the minister hinted that Kitimat would not qualify for the $2 million that was given to both Mackenzie and Fort St. James just prior to the last election. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Can the Minister of Community Development tell this House what the criteria is for this $2 million? Is it ensuring that ministers are re-elected, or is it taking care of citizens who find themselves out of work for no reason of their own? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. B. Bennett: I'll tell you one thing I'm not going to do. I'm not going to make light of a very difficult situation in the member's riding, where 535 workers and their families have been notified that as of January 31, they won't be working at that mill. I actually don't think that that's something that we should politicize. I think it's something that we should work together on. I invite the member to work with myself and with the Rural Secretariat on a plan for Kitimat for transition. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I should say to the member that the workers are there until January 31. I hope he's not throwing in the towel, because we think there is some chance…. We're certainly not going to give up on the possibility that this mill can remain open. I know the Minister of Forests wants that to happen. We'll do our best to try for that. In the meantime I have staff from the Rural Secretariat in Kitimat, and just recently the mayor said she was very pleased to have them there. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
R. Austin: I'm not by any means making light of this. I just want to make sure that the citizens of Kitimat and the northwest get the same treatment as other communities. That's all we want. The crisis in Kitimat affects directly 535 workers, but we all know that there will be many more who are dependent on the Eurocan pulp mill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This minister has never answered the previous questions around transition funds for workers. Will he tell this House today if the B.C. Liberals are going to put aside moneys for worker transition? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. B. Bennett: I can tell the member that we have a number of initiatives already underway. In fact, the Rural Secretariat was in Kitimat in late September. They were already, even before the announcement, working on an economic diversification plan for Kitimat. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The member has both today and previously suggested that there is a fair comparison between Mackenzie and Kitimat. Although it is a difficult, even tragic, situation to have 535 workers notified they're going to be laid off, Mackenzie has about a 70 percent reliance on the forest industry compared to Kitimat, which gets about 14 percent of its income from the forest industry. So they are different situations. I can tell the member that members of my Rural Secretariat team are there. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, the member doesn't seem to have confidence in his own community. I mean, there are lots of communities in this province that just wished that they had the opportunities that Kitimat has. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
FUNDING FOR FPINNOVATIONS
D. Routley: To the Forests Minister: FPInnovations is a company with a 30-year track record of providing new products, new processes and new markets to help diversify our forest industry. Despite this minister's claims to want to revitalize the industry, his government cut half a million dollars funding to that company, which was matched by a half-million-dollar federal cut. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So now we're seeing a company that has proven its value, has never laid off an employee in its 30-year history, facing the layoff of almost a third of its staff. How does this cut make sense when the forestry industry has been put into a crisis by this government's policies? Will the minister restore that funding immediately? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. P. Bell: FPInnovations actually works out of the University of British Columbia, and I met very recently with senior officials at FPInnovations. While we are refocusing some of their efforts to products that are more aligned with what we believe the future of the forest industry is, they are one of the most advanced institutions in moving forward on things like bioenergy. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1425]
We're continuing to fund FPInnovations. They receive funding from many different sources –– the Canadian government and institutions –– and we'll continue to support them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
D. Routley: I'll give you just one example of the type of innovation that's being stymied by this government's cuts. There was a company that made a $2,000 investment in FPInnovations services. They went in and gave advice. They got an 18 percent increase in productivity and a 27 percent reduction in energy costs out of that $2,000 investment. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's the kind of innovation that will revitalize our forest industry. That's the kind of innovation every British Columbian wants for our industry, not this minister's empty rhetoric. Again to the Minister of Forests: will he restore that funding to FPInnovations so that their great work in helping to diversify our forest industry can continue? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. P. Bell: It's interesting listening to the member opposite. I think I almost heard a policy articulated from the other side. That's exceptional. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government has been very supportive of the research and development initiatives that go on at the University of British Columbia. We've substantially added to the research activities that have been going on across this province through research chairs, through increased funding. We're going to continue to work with FPInnovations. They're one of the organizations that we're very supportive of. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[End of question period.]
M. Sather: I seek leave to present a petition. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: Proceed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Petitions
M. Sather: I present to the House a petition opposing the implementation of the HST, from people in Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows — in total, 1,875 individuals. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Karagianis: I'd like to present a petition as well. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: Proceed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Karagianis: I have here 214 people in my community opposing the implementation of the HST in British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
A. Dix: I wish to present a petition. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker: Proceed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
A. Dix: It's signed by hundreds of people in my constituency of Vancouver-Kingsway in opposition to the HST. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Orders of the Day
Hon. M. de Jong: In Committee A, Committee of Supply — for the information of members, the estimates of the Ministry of Small Business, Technology and Economic Development. In this chamber, continued second reading debate on Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Second Reading of Bills
Bill 21 — AMBULANCE SERVICES
COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT ACT
(continued)
D. Routley: It's a bit of a case of: where was I? You know, we started out this debate lamenting the fact that the government would reduce itself and British Columbians to seeing our highly respected ambulance paramedics legislated back to work in this brutal way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[L. Reid in the chair.]
The connection has been drawn by several speakers between this step by the government at this late hour, this unprecedented step to interfere and interrupt the free collective bargaining process four days from the vote count being taken in the contract vote, this contract being voted on as we speak by ambulance paramedics. This is a mail-in ballot, so most of the ballots have already been cast. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Why would the government choose this moment to introduce this legislation, considering that it is the first time in Canada that a government has acted to intervene in the collective bargaining process while a vote is being taken? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1430]
Well, I could give you the local example that I've already cited, where our communities of Nanaimo, Ladysmith, Crofton, Chemainus, all the way south to Duncan — between Nanaimo and Duncan — were served by three ambulances on Halloween night, while three ambulances were forced by the LRB decision to be stationed at an Olympic venue to do practice runs with crews staffed at premium rates. So the connection is being drawn here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
VANOC has called out across the country for volunteer paramedics who would come and help during the Olympics. Many of those paramedics are refusing to respond out of fear that they would be crossing a picket line. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Well, I'd like to read to you from a memo. This memo was sent from Dr. Mike Wilkinson, the director of medical services for VANOC, to Stephen Brown, Lee Doney and other government officials involved in this paramedics dispute. An excerpt from that memo says: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"VANOC Medical Services, and thus the IOC, requires definitive confirmation by October 1, 2009, that all required ambulance services will be provided as planned. These services include the ability to engage the VPCs and BCAS members in full venue planning as soon as possible. This confirmation must also include a guarantee that no services during the games will be disrupted or reduced from what has been planned.
"If we are unable to obtain that guarantee through either settlement of the strike or legislated détente for the games, then VANOC will be required to initiate alternative contingency plans to avoid cancellation of the games."
Many of us have stood and extolled the virtues of our ambulance paramedics. I said earlier in my speech that all of us have heard people say: "Oh my god, I wouldn't want to be an ambulance driver — the pressure, the stress of what they do." We all have an undying, unwavering respect for the sacrifice and commitment of ambulance paramedics. We all do in British Columbia, but that respect is not being mirrored or matched by our government. This B.C. Liberal government dragged its feet for months without addressing the issues of the ambulance paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On average, an ambulance paramedic takes five years to become full-time. During that time they work part-time, and they pay out of their own pockets for their training. Unfortunately, many of them leave the profession. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister has cited a difficulty in recruitment and retention. Well, hardly a surprise when those part-time ambulance paramedics are being paid as low as $2 an hour on call, when they're at an instant called out to the most horrific scenes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They're called out to accident scenes. They're called out to address the needs of children in crisis, injured and dying people. They are the ones who witness the last glint in the eye of so many British Columbians. That incredible stress so often results in the very difficult condition known as post-traumatic stress disorder, not to mention the other perils of the job in terms of injury and illness — the high accident rate, the high injury rate due to the demands of lifting and moving people in very difficult circumstances. Can it be any wonder that so many would leave the profession? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the government pointed to the fact that the sheriffs in this province were experiencing a recruitment and retention problem, what did they do? In mid-contract they opened the collective agreement and applied a 10 percent increase in order to provide more incentive. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What did this government do when it came to our ambulance paramedics? They dragged their feet. They refused to appoint an arbitrator. They refused to address the needs, and now they throw a gauntlet down to the entire public service, telling the public service that this is what they can all expect come negotiation time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's a terrible failure to acknowledge the respect and the station that British Columbians consider for their ambulance paramedics. We all expect our government to address their needs. If there's a recruitment and retention problem, address that recruitment and retention problem, not through this kind of brutal legislation that interferes and interrupts with their collective bargaining in a way that's unprecedented. Actually address the conditions on the job that force people out of that profession. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1435]
It's very sad that we could end up in this situation, but then I think it's only reasonable that the cynical view that this is being driven by VANOC and this government's fear of being embarrassed during the Olympic Games, which finally drove them to action…. And a brutal action it is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's sad that the people who probably hold one of the highest places of respect with British Columbians should be treated this way. Since the strike began, our service has been protected through essential service rulings from the LRB. The ruling found that only 16 of their some 3,500 members are non-essential. In fact, the essential service ruling meant that most ambulance paramedics had to work more overtime hours to meet that requirement, indicating that perhaps this government wasn't even meeting essential service levels before the ruling. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister has pointed to a number of other issues to obfuscate the real reason. The real reason, in my view and the view of several other members who have spoken, is the pressure being put on the government by VANOC. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They've also mentioned H1N1 — that we're in the middle of a crisis. Well, that crisis was predicted for months and months — in fact, before the dispute even began. The government ignored that haste. They did not pay attention to that impending pressure on the system. If it were true that they are moving to legislate the ambulance paramedics back to work only now and that that is based in part on the H1N1 outbreak, then why are ambulance paramedics not part of the first wave of priority vaccinations? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In fact, up in the Courtenay-Comox area the ambulance paramedics have tried to get vaccinations but have been told, I am told, that they are not part of the first priority. How can the H1N1 outbreak be sufficient grounds to take an unprecedented legislative action in intervening and interrupting the free collective bargaining process but not enough of an imperative to advance those very same people to the highest-priority level for vaccination? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government's reasoning doesn't hold water. Again the government is found being less than truthful. The government is telling British Columbians something that isn't true, and the government is hiding its real motivations. Its real motivations are tied up in VANOC and the impending Olympic Games, which they've hung their credibility on — their wavering and sinking credibility — and the fact that the public service is about to enter into collective bargaining. So they're throwing the gauntlet down. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In fact, these very same ambulance paramedics will be due to bargain again on April 1, and labour lobbying — what it is in B.C. — means that those negotiations will likely start four months ahead of that date. That's December 1. So the first meetings for the next collective agreement may take place as early as December 1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What kind of goodwill will those ambulance paramedics and their union representatives feel heading to a table with a government that would take this unprecedented and brutal act of interference, a government that has absolutely failed and refused to recognize their legitimate complaints about the structure of the service? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Remember, we're dealing with people who most British Columbians hold in the very highest order of esteem — a job that very few of us could face day in and day out, night after night, knowing that the next call might be the one that sends them into the cycle of post-traumatic stress disorder or challenges their very souls as they try to help people in crisis. Like so many other British Columbians who provide the services that we as human beings rely upon in an essential way, they have been insulted by the policies of this government and the actions of this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1440]
They have been, through the social policies of this government that have created a situation on our streets where homelessness in the province has increased by at least 350 percent, where people are being scooped up off our streets in absolute crisis. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Our ambulance paramedics are being asked to do more than just the job they were trained for. The training they're receiving on the job is delivered thanks to the mistreatment of the people of British Columbia by this government. They're being forced to be social workers. They're being forced to be police. They're being forced to be drug and alcohol workers. They're being forced to be mental health workers, and they're not being recognized. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In fact, they're being slapped, and they are being insulted. They have stood proudly to serve us. On Vancouver Island at the same time we only had those three ambulances serving the population of Nanaimo and south through Ladysmith, Chemainus and Crofton. At that same time car dealers were being paid to remove the On Strike stickers from their ambulances. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What priority is this? What priority is this that this government should deliver to the people and to those who serve them in such a dedicated way. None of us — not many of us — can even imagine the commitment it takes and the strength of character it takes to continue to deliver that service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With this decision, how many more will leave the profession? How many more will decide that they aren't recognized or valued? How many more will take the training they've acquired and apply it to the fire service or take it out of our jurisdiction or into a completely different field because they are so frustrated by this government's insult? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The recruitment and retention problem that this minister faces will only be amplified, multiplied by the action he's taking now. Who will pay for that? Who will pay for this government's failure to do its sworn duty to represent the public interest of this province, this time? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Will it be someone in a car accident when we don't have the attendants we need? Will it be someone who suffers a heart attack or stroke when we don't have the attendants or the ambulances required to help them in a timely enough way to perhaps save their lives? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government is playing a cynical political game ultimately with the lives of British Columbians. We've seen the ads from the ambulance paramedics. They asked the same question: who will pay? Who will pay in the end? This government thinks it's okay that British Columbians should face that bill, that the result of their actions should lead to an increased difficulty in recruiting and retaining our ambulance paramedics, which will lead to an even increased level of frustration amongst those dedicated British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government thinks that's okay, and they think it's okay to drag their feet through months and months of non-negotiation. They think it's okay for them, now at the final hour as the votes are being counted, to take this unprecedented action, this unprecedented interference and interruption of the collective bargaining process. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They think it's okay because they're used to playing cynical games with people's lives. It is a very sad circumstance in our beautiful province with the wealth of this province, the wealth of natural resources and most particularly the wealth of human resource. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The faith of British Columbians is what built this province. The faith and commitment demonstrated every day by those ambulance paramedics is exactly the character and principle and value upon which this province is founded, and it is being insulted by the cynical political game being played by this government and that minister. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1445]
How can it be? How can it be that such an essential service to British Columbians should wind up being the political football of this sad government? It's fine that they have their ideology — that they will privatize and deliver the benefit of this province into the hands of the few. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If they're honest about that ideology, we can judge them on that. But when they hide from the public their true intention and motivation the way they did during the election campaign, the way they did before they were originally elected when it came to HEU workers and the tearing up of those contracts, the way they have here…. The way they have taken the contract between our province and the people who serve us and who we value at a higher level than practically any people in our province — that they could do that — and turn this into cynical political gamesmanship is sad commentary on the place that we have come to. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There aren't many other steps this government could take that would be more insulting to the character of British Columbians than to bring an affront like this to people like ambulance paramedics. But I'm sure there's more in store for this province as we head for further collective bargaining amongst other public workers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'll make a prediction here. This cynical and brutal step taken by this government in dealing with the supposedly good-faith bargaining process between our ambulance paramedics and the people of B.C. will come back to haunt them and, unfortunately, also to haunt the people of B.C. when they go back to the table in as little as a month's time to seek good-faith commitment from the other side. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I hope, for the sake of British Columbians, there's enough faith left in the hearts of the ambulance paramedics for them to extend it to the government, because it's hardly something that we should hope for — that they should not be at that table. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I predict that this government will have a very difficult time acquiring any credibility when it comes to dealing with the human issues of British Columbians. When they seek to negotiate any kind of settlement with any group, in the interests of British Columbians, we will all be looking to their vest pocket, to the true interest that they protect. It's never been the public interest of British Columbians; it's always been some of their insiders and some of their friends. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Sather: I rise to address Bill 21, Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. As a speaker before me commented, it's a very bizarre title for this bill — collective agreement act — when, in fact, what the government is doing is gutting the collective agreement and saying that the collective agreement doesn't count, saying that all of the negotiations that have gone by so far don't count, saying: "Your whole process of free collective bargaining that is recognized in a democracy doesn't count." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's a troubling day, I think, for British Columbians when a government makes a move such as this, particularly with this employee group, this group of workers that means so much to the safety and security of everyday British Columbians. All of us depend on the B.C. Ambulance Service and the workers who do the exemplary work that they do for them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We don't know whether it's going to be today, tomorrow or sometime down the road, but we do know that most likely we or certainly our family members are at some point going to depend on that service. It is life and death. As we know, we're not talking about optional services; we're talking about essential services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1450]
It's troubling to look at what effect this legislation, in imposing a settlement in the way that it's been done, is going to have not only on the morale of paramedics but also on the future security of our ambulance services. Certainly the trust in the process for those folks must be severely shaken, and I expect they're mulling over what their options are. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But when the government comes in with a big hammer and they have the power to do that — government has the power to do that — it doesn't leave these workers with many options, except they have to figure out how to deal with it psychologically. They have to figure out how to deal with it financially, which we know is a big issue for paramedics, particularly in terms of the standby time issues that they have. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What is it going to mean for all of us? It's a dark day, I think. It really can be said without hyperbole that it is a dark day for labour relations in this province when we see the government come through with this bill in the way that it's been done. It's certainly disconcerting. We know that the health and well-being of those that are the caregivers and caretakers is in many ways more important than the health and well-being of the rest of us, because if we can't depend on them…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If you go to your doctor and he's not psychologically in the position of stability that he can act in your best interest, then you know you've got something to be concerned about. Yet these workers, the paramedics, deal with considerable trauma all the time in ways that we, not having done that, can't imagine. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I remember talking to a friend years ago. He wasn't a paramedic, but he was a volunteer with the fire department. We have a partially volunteer fire department in Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows. You know, he would unfortunately have to witness some pretty severe scenes at car accidents and the like. I asked him what effect that had on him. I was surprised at his response. His response actually kind of concerned me, in that he didn't think it had any effect on him. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Having been a mental health worker myself, I know that's how post-traumatic stress disorder creeps up on people. They don't think it has any effect on them, and then things start happening in their lives that are…. It could be a number of things — certainly sleep disorders, nightmares, inability to concentrate, sometimes overuse of alcohol or drugs. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are the kinds of stresses and strains that we take for granted that these folks are doing for us every day. I don't think I could do it, and I take my hat off to them and the work they've done. I just feel strongly that the kind of respect we should all have for those workers is not being shown here by the government today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We're going to talk about other members. I'm going to talk about other members. I've already talked about what appear to be some of the overriding or underlying reasons for this draconian measure that the government has taken. One of the things, too, that interested me about this dispute since its beginning…. Paramedics certainly have fallen behind in terms of comparability in remuneration and benefits with police forces over the years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1455]
I wondered what the police departments feel about that. We know that the police, of course, deal with very difficult situations. They're given arms to manage what are sometimes very dangerous situations. So when I started talking to them, I was surprised to hear some of the things I heard. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I remember one officer telling me: "Oh absolutely. They should have parity with us." I said: "Yeah? Can you tell me why you think that's the case?" And he said: "Well, those folks are out on calls where they have no idea what they're going to be facing." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They don't know when they arrive on the scene whether there's anybody armed. They don't know whether there's anybody dangerous. They don't know if the person has a gun or a knife. They have no idea, and they go in there unarmed to a completely unknown situation and a dangerous situation. Those are often in homes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The ambulance, 911, gets called, and there's a need for an ambulance. Sometimes they're the first ones there. They may be the only ones that are called in a situation. Yet they have to deal with the situation as they see it, and they don't have the security that being armed provides to one when you go…. Of course, we know that being armed is not a surefire way to keep from being injured oneself. But they don't have that security, and I think that's been the impression. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The support from police forces for the paramedics has been shown quite visibly. I've seen the paramedic signs up at RCMP detachments in several places around the province. I think we should be aware of what other professionals think about the jobs that paramedics do, because it seems that the government doesn't value very highly the job that they do. They're willing to sacrifice the stability of the system — I think that's what it amounts to — and the future stability of the system for some questionable reasons or apparent reasons. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows we have only two cars, two ambulances, and they have to serve not only our area from Mission to the Pitt River Bridge, but they have to serve outside of our community. Because they're often short-staffed, particularly in a larger call, they're called out of the community. So when you dial 911 and need an ambulance in Maple Ridge, one of those ambulances may be in New Westminster. In the kind of traffic congestion that we have most of the time, most of the day and evening, between New Westminster and Maple Ridge, it can be some considerable time for them to get back. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So people's lives are at risk. We had a tragic death of a young child a few years ago. She choked to death. We did not have the capability to get there in time to save that child's life. We know that the capacity to do that, to respond, is dropping. But I know it certainly gives me a feeling of security. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Actually just the other morning, Monday, about two o'clock in the morning, I woke up. We happen to live close to the Lougheed Highway in Maple Ridge. I heard this screeching sound followed by a big bang, and I knew there was another accident on the Lougheed Highway. I'm waiting and was very pleased to hear within a matter of a couple of minutes…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1500]
The ambulance station, fortunately, is not far from our place, and I was very pleased to hear…. I sometimes have gone out on the Lougheed Highway, because I am close to it, to assist. I'm wondering. Do I get up and go out in the middle of the night to help or what? Fortunately, very quickly I heard the ambulance coming to the rescue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The problem for us is — and it's even more acute, as we've heard from other members on this side of the House before and as I know we're going to hear again…. The situation is even more acute in rural areas. The response times are not up to what they should be because of the lack of resources that our ambulance services have and that our paramedics have to work with. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When we look at the breakdown of how this came about or what was taking place, we see that three days before a vote on an offer made by the government on September 28…. The government pulls the pin on the paramedics three days before they're due to take a vote. That's curious. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Apparently, the minister said that Mr. Strohmaier, the president of CUPE Local 873, said that the contract was crap, so that was it. They weren't going to accept it. Or that's the supposition of the minister, apparently — that they weren't going to accept it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Well, it seems to me, in fact, that anyone in labour negotiations would say and I think most reasonable people would say: "Why not wait and see what the result of the vote was going to be?" But no, there seemed to be, suddenly, a great urgency on the part of this government to…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Excuse me, Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The member rises on a point of order. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Point of Order
J. Rustad: Some of the language that has just been used in that speech, I believe, is somewhat unparliamentary, and I'd ask him to withdraw it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Sather: Thank you. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: One moment, Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I would certainly caution all members to be cautious in their use of parliamentary language. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Please proceed.
M. Sather: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I certainly will take your advice on that issue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Debate Continued
M. Sather: Clearly, this is a government that each and every one should be ashamed of this day — should be ashamed of this legislation, should be ashamed of treating working people in British Columbia like this. I can understand that the government should feel a little bit sensitive about the issues that we're discussing, because they're not comfortable for them and certainly not very comfortable for us either in that. It's just a sad day all around. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government could have appointed an independent arbitrator months ago. We will remember that back a few years ago, a couple of years ago, when the government was thinking about how to have labour peace — I'm sure that over the Olympic period was part of the equation — the then Finance Minister Carole Taylor came up with a package that was acceptable. Any of the good feeling or rapport or trust that might have been built up by that time by that then-minister has certainly disappeared now. It's gone out the window in a big way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1505]
This Bill 21 — the minister says that it's for a short time, that it expires March 31 of 2010, which just happens to be after the Olympics. I'm sure it's a coincidence. As the previous speaker mentioned, bargaining is probably going to resume on that collective agreement very quickly — before Christmas, certainly, I would expect. Or it should, in normal terms. Whether any of the normal terms are going to be pursued in terms of labour relations from this point forward seems to be very much in doubt. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can't imagine sitting across the table on the government side as a negotiator in a few weeks, after having pulled this bill out of the hat. It's going to be very difficult for the sides to come to an amicable agreement, and that's the problem with this. It damages, poisons labour relations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
People don't forget, and we've seen already that the paramedics don't give up. They're standing strong for the needs that they see in the system that they work in, and who could see them better than them? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You can't expect them…. Maybe the government doesn't care. I don't know what future plans they have in terms of labour relations in this province, but maybe they don't care about what the paramedics think or how they feel. That's a very shortsighted perspective, because we will all pay the price if we don't have a paramedic workforce that is not only well trained, adequately paid but that is able to work and feel respected and to have the psychological support to be able to deal with the trauma of the kinds of situations that they have to deal with every day. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Certainly, there's a troubling direction that has been revealed that has come from VANOC with regard to labour relations, specifically the paramedics and the Olympics, saying that VANOC must have a guarantee that no services will be disrupted during the games. Otherwise, VANOC will have to invoke contingency plans to avoid cancellation of the games. Whoa, really? This is what it's come to? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We get a letter, or the government gets a letter. They can deny it, but I don't think it's false. They get this directive from VANOC saying: "Well, you know, you better deal with these paramedics. We're going to have to figure out something, or we'll cancel the games." This is a few months before the 2010 Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
M. Sather: Well, the member used a word that I guess I probably shouldn't repeat with regard to my colleagues on the other side being offended, but it certainly does really give cause for concern as to what on earth is going on here and why this has happened now and in such, to use a word that former colleagues have used, a brutal fashion. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I talked to a young man not too long ago who was very keen, and he's in the process of becoming a paramedic. As he mentioned, it takes some time to become a full-time paramedic. He's a young man who lives here in Victoria. They get sent out in the process at various times to other communities for days or a week or more at a time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1510]
He was spending time over in Tofino and Ucluelet. It's a small community — right? He loves his job. He wants to be a paramedic, but he says: "How do I pay my bills when I'll be sitting there for days and there may be no calls? A couple of days go by, and there's no call for our services, so I'm getting paid a standby rate" –– which would barely pay his gas to get there and back. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, nobody can build a career on that kind of an arrangement, so we've got a big problem. We've got a problem with paramedics leaving their profession in large numbers. Recruitment isn't a big issue for the service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Again, I just don't understand how the government can see any wisdom in a precipitous move, apparently to satisfy VANOC — that they would put at risk the future of our ambulance service. I certainly would think twice. I probably wouldn't enter a profession…. If I looked around and saw this is what I'm facing –– this is the lack of respect that the government has towards me –– I would think, you know, there must be somewhere else that I can work where I would be treated better. So that's a real concern that we all should have. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, it's not as though there hasn't been…. The services have been provided lo, these many months –– the essential services legislation that requires workers like paramedics to not be on a regular strike. Yeah, they had some on-strike signs on their ambulances, but they really weren't in any real strike situation. So a lot of them ended up working overtime to make sure that things worked, because unfortunately there are not a lot of people, as I say, that are looking to become paramedics these days. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, if we look at the proposals that were put forth by the government and by the union, there doesn't appear to be a mile of difference between the two. We have a 3 percent wage increase in common. A labour market adjustment of 1.2 percent and a not all that different, perhaps, proposal from the government side. Expiry time — 17½ months from the union and a year from the government side. And some differences around the employment of an industrial inquiry commission. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But no signing bonus for the paramedics. The signing bonus that public sector workers…. I don't know what the member feels; maybe he feels they don't deserve it. You know, other public sector workers were offered that. It seems like it's just absolutely adding insult to injury. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It really makes one wonder if…. I think some workers in British Columbia thought, after the broad collective agreement for public sector workers was negotiated a couple of years ago, that maybe things were getting better with this government. Some of the concern they had about their attitude towards labour, about their attitude towards public sector workers, was changing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Well, it's gone back to zero and then some, I would suggest, in terms of the confidence or faith that working people can have in this government when it comes to respecting free collective bargaining, when it comes to respecting the work that they do. So these will be long-lasting, the effects. They won't go away easily. People don't forget this kind of treatment. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1515]
I wanted to look at some of the things that the union is calling for the industrial inquiry commission to look at: staff recruitment, training and retention. Well, those are the big basic issues that they talk about, as well as the resources to do their job. I've talked to them many times over the years. They said: "Money is not the big issue for us. It's the resources to do our job." And it's the capacity to do a good job that they have a concern about. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Employee compensation, of course, is part of any negotiation, but what I see as being relatively close to being an agreement certainly doesn't look exorbitant by any stretch of the imagination. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Staff workload and occupational health and safety issues. And of course, rural and remote deployment and management structures and staff responsibilities and other related matters. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Very reasonable requests that the workers, through their union, have been putting forth. I don't see that the government couldn't have come to some agreement with them. Instead, there seemed to be this need to bring in the hammer to make sure that we have "labour peace." And it is a quote, because this is not labour peace. This is labour unrest — and long-lasting unrest. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
VANOC may think it's peace. I don't know. They're, of course, focused on the Olympics, as they should be. That's their job. But it's not the only job of the province of British Columbia and the government of British Columbia — to ensure that anything and everything is done to ensure that there are no disruptions in any way, shape or form to the Olympics. We've seen that in other legislation before this House and in legislation that we've already discussed in this House. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We have to hope that the government has not lost sight of their general mandate in governing the province over these next few months and is going to focus solely on the 2010 Olympics. But if this is any indication, it seems to me that their perspective is really out of whack, if I can use that term. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, the response times are just not good enough, and that's due to a lack of resources. Now it's down to 52 percent on average — the goal of reaching the intended party within nine minutes. That's dropped from 85 percent in 1985. We need ambulance services every bit as much now as people did in 1985, and yet we've dropped from 85 percent to 52 percent. That should be a concern for each and every British Columbian. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With that, I'll take my seat. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
N. Macdonald: I rise to speak to Bill 21. It is misnamed, as many of the members have already said, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. But of course, there is nothing in this that is collective, and there is certainly no agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What this does is continue in what has been year after year of mismanagement of this service, and the people that have paid the price…. The first thing I want to do is to just say to paramedics just how much we all appreciate the work that the paramedics do and really respect the fact that they are willing to put up with such mismanagement. They're the ones that have to deal with it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1520]
But what you see again and again is this government letting them down and not doing their part. It is that lack of respect on behalf of the government that you see. To my mind, it's epitomized by this Premier. During the election he flicked a loonie at striking paramedics, told them not to spend it all in the same place. That contempt, that disrespect is what you see here on display again, where you have the imposition of conditions that…. For years it has been recognized that they are conditions that simply aren't acceptable if the service is going to work the way that it needs to. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is more than just a labour issue. These are people that we depend upon at the most difficult times in our lives. This is when a child is choking. This is when a senior is having a heart attack. This is after a motor vehicle accident. We depend upon these people to come and do things that we are unable to do. At that moment there is nobody more important than the person that comes and provides comfort and uses their skill to help somebody that's injured. Yet what we see from this government is a willingness to allow the system to operate in a way which simply does not work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The main issue in this debate is the one that the minister alluded to. For me, the part of it that I am most familiar with is the rural paramedic issue. The minister recognized that there are huge problems with how this government has organized itself to deal with the rural paramedic issue. There are huge problems. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The B.C. NDP and local government and the UBCM and AKBLG — every organization that has knowledge about rural paramedics — have raised it with the government over the past four years. We have raised it repeatedly in the House, pointing out the problems that exist for the Ambulance Service, in particular, in rural B.C. — not just rural B.C. but, in particular, in rural B.C. And it's been ignored. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'll bring members here back to a question period when Corky Evans asked a question about Nakusp. He said that Nakusp could not get paramedics to provide service for the community. They put out a letter to every person in the community, asking if somebody would be willing to be a paramedic, and they couldn't find anyone. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the past Minister of Health was asked, the Minister of Health said…. The direct quote is that he gets it — that there's an issue — but it's a collective agreement issue. That was, like, three years ago, and there was some expectation that the government would be working to try to find solutions. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I mean, let's be clear about who created this problem. This government changed the working conditions for paramedics. In the past training was paid for, and then people very often in rural communities would be almost like volunteers. They would be able to have another job, and just like the volunteer fire department, they would come out and provide ambulance service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Well, this government changed those roles. They said that you needed to pay for the training yourself. Now, there are many professions that do that. As a teacher, I would pay the cost of getting the training, go for four years. But then with my job, I would be compensated in a way that would make that worthwhile. But what this government did is they downloaded the cost of the training, and we're talking $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 — not an insignificant amount — and then basically required the paramedics to stay at stations and earn $10 an hour. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Well, how are you ever going to pay back the investment in training? You never will. You won't be able to. If you are in a smaller community, you can be paid as little as $2 an hour. When you treat people like that, there is no question that there is going to be problems with retention. That happens again and again, but instead of dealing with the issue, instead of listening to people, to the opposition, and dealing with the issue, it is put off again and again. With this legislation, it's put off for another year. They're not going to deal with it for another year. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1525]
So what you have left is this expectation that paramedics are going to accept the burden that comes to them, because this is a government that cannot manage this system. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government required members to stay at the station. They said that they had to. Did they check to see that there were stations that were adequate for people, for paramedics, to stay there? They didn't. So across rural British Columbia, you had areas that didn't have appropriate stations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Was there any thinking as to how you would retain paramedics and actually make the system work? There wasn't. So what we've had over the past four years is that again and again we have put these problems in front of the government, and the government ignores it. The best the Premier can do is flick a coin. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Do we hear any B.C. Liberal talk about these issues? There used to be a member for Cariboo South that would talk about B.C. ambulance issues, but that seems to no longer be a problem in Cariboo South. Presumably, no B.C. Liberal represents paramedics that have any issues. They won't even stand and speak in this House — not one. The minister stands and gives his ten-minute talk, and because the Premier has contempt for paramedics and flicks coins at them, each and every one of these B.C. Liberals will sit down and be quiet and say nothing on the issues. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But do they depend on the service? Absolutely. Surely they are aware that there are problems. Surely they should be standing up and demanding that something be done. The minister himself recognizes that certainly in rural British Columbia, the system is not working, and yet year after year, they allow it. They allow it to remain the way it is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'll talk about each of the communities that I represent. In September I was at each of these stations. Now, Kimberley has a station. It has, I believe, one, maybe two, full-time paramedics. They get paid a salary. The rest of the force that is there doing really difficult work is part-time, but part-time is kind of a strange term. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There was a gentleman I talked to. He works the equivalent of two full-time jobs, and because he's often getting $2 an hour or $10 an hour, he earns less than $50,000 a year, and only one-third of that is pensionable. He is not doing that work for any benefit to his family. It is a commitment to the community, and yet that is not even respected. That's what he said to me. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
He said: "Why can I not, even at the very least, get some respect from this government?" Instead, they're treated with contempt. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, Kimberley knows more than many other communities the dangers that go along with coming in and doing this service. We lost two paramedics in the Sullivan mine disaster, and when you had the gathering of paramedics from across the province that came to that community funeral, what you saw was tremendous emotion and tremendous dedication to that service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, there were stations that couldn't send representatives. Golden couldn't send a representative. We did not have enough people. We needed them there in the community, and it just points to the fact that for year after year, there has been this retention issue. The fact is that the government has not managed this in a way that works. Who is left carrying the ball are rural paramedics, and paramedics in general. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm focusing on the things that I understand. I can tell you that in Kimberley the depth of feeling on this issue is huge. You go from house to house, and you will see signs. You will see signs on people's lawns that indicate that they want something done with this issue. They want to save the paramedic service. They want the paramedic service to be treated with the respect that it deserves, and clearly, that's not happening now. In Kimberley you have a situation that is clearly very, very difficult. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1530]
I just want to give people a sense of the next community, which is Invermere. Invermere has a station. They're fortunate in that way. But the government there decided that it was best to get rid of one of the full-time paramedics that we have there. So it depends, again, on what they describe as a part-time service, but it is by no means part-time. These are jobs that require people to stay at the station. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is a community that is hugely expensive to live in, and yet for most of the time that the paramedics are working, they get paid less than the Tim Hortons. So they have to pay for their training, they have to live in an expensive community, and much of the time they spend getting less than somebody who works for Tim Hortons. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Then you take them from there, and you put them into some of the most difficult situations that we can imagine. You put them in a situation where they have to go and deal with a medical emergency. You can imagine the trauma that's involved, but what sort of respect does this government show? None at all. That's an issue that has been put in front of this House again and again, and that this government has failed to deal with. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Golden paramedics aren't in the station. This government can't even figure out how to have a station for paramedics to stay at in Golden. There's a mould issue. They've been out and in a motel for the longest time. It's not like a motel.... [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I see in Victoria they've got them outside of motels, too, so it's not just rural areas they're mismanaging. But in Golden it snows. You have the ambulance sitting outside. You have all of those issues that have to be thought through, and this government can't even manage that part. They have to make paramedics' lives more complicated than they need to be because they can't do the basics in terms of figuring out how to make this service work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The other thing that struck me, going again and again and meeting with paramedics, is that they actually make the best of it. For all of the things that you hear and you think: "Why do you put up with that? Why do you put up with no pension for years? Why do you put up with getting paid ridiculous amounts of money and then being required to go on overtime and having no life? Why do you put up with it?" [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Yet what you consistently see with paramedics is this sense of duty which is incredible and which this government takes advantage of. They absolutely take advantage of it. The government comes in and changes the rules however they want to. But do the paramedics ever do anything other than their duty? They don't. So that sense of duty, this government takes advantage of. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The paramedics are out there right now. Are they happy about this? Do they think it's fair? It's not. And they're not happy about it. Are they out there doing their job? They are, to the best of their ability. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If only we had a government, if only we had members here who would do what they should be doing. Instead, what will we get? We will not have one B.C. Liberal stand up and actually speak. They've been told to be quiet. They'll be quiet. They do what they're told. So the contempt that the Premier shows for paramedics is acceptable to each and every one of these members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We've had questions about VANOC. Is the minister responsible for the Olympics going to stand up and explain anything? No. She's been told to sit down and be quiet. She will. She'll do exactly what she's told, despite the fact she has to know, and other members have to know, the situation that's there and real for paramedics. But a complete unwillingness to speak on their behalf or to try to understand this issue or to put in place a piece of legislation that is in any way reasonable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Golden you have the Trans-Canada Highway. You have one of the most difficult sections of the Trans-Canada Highway. Between there and Revelstoke is a very challenging place, and there have been some horrific accidents. When those accidents take place, paramedics are expected to go and deal with the situation and deal with it basically on their own. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1535]
They are not minutes away from a facility. They will often take an hour to get to an accident. Then they have to deal with the patient and look after them for an hour and a half until they get back to a hospital, a local hospital. Then following that, it can often be hours again before they get to a trauma centre like Foothills in Calgary. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is an incredible burden that you're asking those paramedics to carry. Yet, how are you going to retain the most skilled people in that community? You simply can't. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There was a paramedic in Golden that I was talking to. She made more as a waitress. You're asking her to pay for her training, the thousands of dollars, to come in and earn less than she would if she had not trained, if she had simply remained as a waitress, and to do jobs that, to be honest, very few of us would do because of their challenge and how difficult they are. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Revelstoke is the last of the communities I'll speak about. Here was a community that, when these changes were introduced four or five years ago by this government, had found themselves with no station. The area that they were in was part of the fire department. There was no room for people to stay overnight, so they had to leave. They had to leave that station, and where they ended up was in a motel. This is just how poorly thought through this service is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They put them in a motel. If you have been to Revelstoke…. I doubt there is a part of British Columbia that gets more snow. The ambulance was parked outside over the winter. It was covered in snow. Because they had to be ready to go if an accident happened, they were constantly out there cleaning off the ambulances, and they were told by their employer, they were told by this government, that they're not allowed to do that. That $10, when you're supposed to be sitting in the motel…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Here's an official note: "Don't clean off the ambulance, because you're not covered by workers compensation." Not only do you not get pension for that, but you're not covered by workers compensation. If you injure yourself, it's not only tough luck for you, but we've told you not to do it. Therefore, you're going to be in trouble with us as well. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Paramedics, of course, have to clean off the ambulance, so they're out there doing it. But it just shows you, each and every time you have paramedics with the burden of the mismanagement of this government and having to deal with it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Revelstoke we were promised a station. What we have ended up with in Revelstoke is the motel situation, then into an industrial site. Because of pollution issues and safety issues, the paramedics went back to a motel, and now they're back in a cleaned-up industrial site, waiting for a station that we were promised a year ago, six months ago. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This summer I was on the phone with the B.C. Ambulance Service, and I was guaranteed, from the minister on down, that that ambulance was coming. The city of Revelstoke bought property, got it all ready, and still it's not arriving. It's just one more of the many, many cuts that this government makes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the minister stands up and says that he's going to deal with rural issues for paramedics, you've got to wonder, in the context of…. At some point, some of the commitments that a government makes have to actually come true if they expect to be believed on anything, and that's just not the record of this government. They say one thing, and you can be sure that the opposite is more likely to happen than not. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I just want to, again, say to paramedics how much I respect the work they do. I just want to read, in the time that I have, a couple of things. First, related to the life of a paramedic and then related to the life of people that live with paramedics and what it means for families. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is from a gentleman named Michael Tomaino. He's from Vancouver, actually. He e-mailed me after my throne speech, where both in the throne speech and in the budget speech the first thing that I did was just talk about paramedics for a few minutes. I think it's instructive just to hear what he said. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
He heard me speak, and he sent off a quick e-mail. He says: "My name is Michael Tomaino, and I am a paramedic with the B.C. Ambulance Service. I'm attaching a picture of a colleague of mine, who this week was photographed by the Province newspaper, sitting on the bumper of an ambulance with his head in his hands. His heart was heavy with sadness, for he just witnessed the aftermath of a terrible accident." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1540]
The member will remember a tragic accident this summer in Vancouver where a young child was with the mother, and the child was hit by a runaway truck. He just talks about that paramedic and that paramedic having to deal with that situation. We can all imagine it — the mother, the young child, realizing there was nothing they could do for the child. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What Mr. Tomaino goes on to say is that it reminds him of things that he's had to deal with — removing a young man out of the waters beneath the Pattullo Bridge and realizing there's nothing that he could do and having to make that decision. He talks about attending the mushroom farm in Langley a year ago and having to deal with all of that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think that these are things we forget. Most of us are quite fortunate in our lives that we don't deal with these traumatic events. These are professionals, and he goes on to say that they're not asking for sympathy or to be called heroes or to do anything else. They want to do this work, but they do think that it's absolutely important — and Michael makes this point — that they receive respect for what they do. That is a big part of what is missing here, a big part of what is missing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The B.C. Liberals are going to line up and vote for this. I would expect that at the very least they explain their vote. If nothing else, stand up and explain why this is a reasonable course of action. I don't think that's too much to expect. Surely we all came here to express the views of our constituents, and to accept that you don't get to say something on it, for the B.C. Liberal members, is ridiculous to me. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to read one other thing. It just talks about a family member. It just gives you an idea of how it's not only the paramedic but also the members of the family. It's from George Weitzel from Kimberley, a good friend. Here he's talking about his life with a paramedic. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"I would like to address the on-call pay issue as one that I am personally familiar with and one that I believe demonstrates the disregard the provincial government has shown to our paramedics.
"I would like you to imagine that your spouse is a fully trained paramedic who has a schedule that may include as many as five on-call shifts per week. They can be either ten-hour day shifts or a 14-hour night shift. Your spouse carries a pager at all times when on call and must be at the ambulance station in uniform and ready to roll in ten minutes. They are not free to go out for dinner, go grocery shopping or do anything that would prevent them from responding in ten minutes.
"Now try to imagine going to sleep when you're on call, with a pager inches from your ear. Imagine being paged at three or four in the morning and quickly putting on the uniform and being out the door into a cold winter night, the adrenalin pumping hard.
"Now imagine receiving $2 per hour for being on call. There is not another emergency service provider in the province who receives such a pittance for being on call.
"The present treatment of our paramedics is shameful, and the failure of our government to recognize the importance of a well-trained and motivated ambulance service is a disservice to us all."
I don't think anyone could sum it up better than George Weitzel. That is exactly what is going on here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"The present treatment of our paramedics is shameful, and the failure of our government to recognize the importance of a well-trained and motivated ambulance service is a disservice to us all."
You could not articulate the issue here any clearer than that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know that the opposition will continue to fight on this issue. We will do what we need to do to get the B.C. Ambulance Service so that it works not only in rural British Columbia but in all parts of British Columbia. I know and want to say again to paramedics how much respect we have for the work that paramedics have done. I think that this piece of legislation treats them, again, in a manner of contempt that most British Columbians find offensive. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In each one of my communities and actually across the province we see the signs. We know that if you look at surveys that are done of jobs that are respected…. I saw one recently in the Reader's Digest. It had firefighters at the top. Right behind them you had paramedics, the people that we depend upon. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1545]
I won't say where politicians fit in that list, but you can imagine. It's nowhere near. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are people that deserve respect. To wait a year for another process that's uncertain is a ridiculous option. This is something that could have been settled. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is actually not up to the paramedics to make this work. It is actually up to the government. The government should be the one that is looking at the issues of retention and getting the training piece right. That should be the minister's responsibility. He shouldn't have to be dragged into that by paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm going to wrap up. I know that there are other members, B.C. NDP and independent members, who are actually going to stand and speak on this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I will say again that the behaviour by the Premier of flicking a loonie at paramedics was indicative of contempt. That's an action I've never heard the Premier apologize for. He should be in this House and apologize. The fact is that he's not even going to speak on this. He's not even going to stand and speak on this issue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There should be a B.C. Liberal that stands up and explains their vote. Otherwise, I don't know how you go back to your communities and hold up your heads. I honestly don't. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With that, I turn it over to my colleague. I thank you for the opportunity to speak, and I thank paramedics again for the jobs that they do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
V. Huntington: I'm not normally given to speaking on behalf of unions, but I would like to take this opportunity to say a few words about Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The explanatory note attached to the legislation states: "This bill settles the labour dispute between the Emergency and Health Services Commission and its ambulance paramedics and dispatchers." The explanatory note, to me, is unsettling, given that the legislation was obviously drawn up in the middle of a formal offer to the union. If that isn't an example of bad-faith bargaining, I'm not sure what is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I agree with the minister that we're going into a bad flu season. Yes, the holiday seasons are coming, and yes, the managers are tired and frustrated. Yes, we would all like to see this labour dispute settled. I also have to admit that even though there are legitimate demands, I feel the expectations of the paramedics and dispatchers are somewhat unrealistic, given the announcement in the February '09 budget that there would be no new money for public sector wage increases. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can even understand the government's decision not to go to arbitration, and I certainly applaud the minister's announcement of the industrial inquiry commission. There are many structural issues that clearly need independent resolution in this dispute. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What I do not understand, however, is the decision to enter free bargaining, the decision to make an offer and the decision to bring in back-to-work legislation four days before the vote was taken on that offer. I wonder sometimes if there's been a decision at some level to so discourage participation in this profession that a move to privatizing the Ambulance Service is in the offing. If that's so, let us have a public and open debate on the merits or otherwise of such a move. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In the meantime, I feel that there are principles of fair play on which our society depends and on which it is founded. There is law surrounding collective bargaining rights. There is, or was, public expectation that government operates within the sphere of law and fair play. In fact, the long-term stability of a democracy is, in its essence, dependent upon the predictability of process. That is what contract law is all about. That is what we expect our governments to honour: the legal processes that bind a sound, stable and democratic society. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1550]
But fairness and dependability are in danger of becoming unknown commodities in this province, at least for the people this government should be representing. If you are an industry, access is now your speedy right. There's a new noblesse oblige in this province. But if you are just the people, you can no longer rely on the expectation of fair play or the ear of this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So here I am, a strong free-enterpriser defending the right of a union to fair play. I strongly believe the government should let the bargaining process play out and that the vote should be taken. If the offer isn't accepted and the government continues to believe there is a threat to the delivery of ambulance service in B.C., then perhaps legislation of this nature would be more understandable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At the moment I can only say that I believe the government has acted in bad faith and has moved intemperately with the introduction of this legislation. To me, it is just one more nail in the coffin of public trust and faith in the legitimacy of this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
H. Lali: I rise to take my place in the debate on Bill 21 entitled Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's a bit of a misnomer here because there's no collective agreement. The collective agreement, or the so-called collective agreement, is being forced upon the paramedics while their rights are being run roughshod by this government — all of this following, basically, months and months and months of footdragging from the government while the paramedics had been looking for an agreement and a solution. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government's basically wasted all this time. Now, because the Olympics are around the corner and they don't want anything going astray, they're bringing this forward under those auspices. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm just going to read you a list of some names of communities here. There are a whole bunch of communities on the north coast, not the least of which is Prince Rupert. There's Masset, Sandspit, Bella Coola, Bella Bella, Stewart. We also have Kamloops, 100 Mile House, Agassiz, Harrison Lake, Lake Eric, Ruby Creek, and along Highway 1 from Annis Road to Herrling Island, northern part of Vancouver Island, Invermere, Revelstoke, Kimberley, Fernie, Chase, Merritt, Armstrong, Ashcroft, Salmon Arm, Canoe, Sicamous, Terrace, Alexis Creek, Chemainus and Port Renfrew. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You're probably wondering why I'm reading all these names. What is it that these communities have in common? Well, with the exception of a couple of larger communities like Kamloops and Prince Rupert, which is kind of medium-sized, it's all rural British Columbia. Every single one of these communities is located in rural British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They're not just in one part of the province. There are communities here from the rural part of Vancouver Island, the north coast, communities here in the Cariboo, in the Thompson, in the Okanagan region, from the Kootenays, and there are some communities that are not listed here up in the Peace River country as well. They are communities all over rural British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The reason those names are mentioned is that if anybody was looking at all of the written media or even listening to the radio or television, every one of these communities and dozens more that are not listed here in my list…. Every single one of them has had problems in terms of the ambulance service, whether it's a shortage of paramedics or the overly length of time — I think I just invented that word — the extra amount of time it actually takes for the ambulances to respond to emergency situations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1555]
It's not good enough. It's actually pathetic, in terms of the lack of resources that have been given to our ambulance service by this Liberal government over the last eight years, and the situation is not getting any better. It's getting worse year by year, month by month, week by week, and for some communities it's getting worse day by day. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, these are some of the municipalities and the incorporated communities that I have talked about. There are dozens and dozens of unincorporated communities which are not actually covered in the list that I just sounded off, but I have another list of hundreds of communities where they are included. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What's also not included is all of the aboriginal reserves, the aboriginal villages that surround almost every single one of these communities that I mentioned. If the length of response time is a little too long in those municipalities and in those communities, just imagine the length of time that's tacked on because you happen to be a first nations community. Some of them are as far away as two or three hours from these municipalities or these organized towns. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Communities up on the north coast, communities up in the Cariboo region, which are on the actual west coast of British Columbia — how long it takes for an ambulance to get there, or the ambulance doesn't get there because there are no paramedics. It's getting worse. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Successive Ministers of Health have done nothing to improve the situation for these small communities. I see my colleague from Columbia River–Revelstoke, who did a fantastic job of outlining some of the concerns, nodding in agreement, because the problems that I'm going to talk about, some of these issues that I'm going to raise in my constituency, are no different than the issues and the concerns that people are talking about in his constituency and in the constituencies of the rural members opposite. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But you would be hard pressed…. You know, they're going to stand up here on Bill 21. They're all going to stand up, one after the other, and they're going to vote to actually pass this bill. They're going to vote to get the paramedics back to work. They're going to force them. They're going to bring the hammer down on them. They're all going to get up and do that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Since getting re-elected in '05, and again in '09, I haven't…. I might be wrong, because I might not have been in the House at that particular time, as members, as you know, go in and out and serve their duty. They have other duties they have to go to — meetings and functions, etc. But I have not heard a single one of the Liberals, especially the rural MLAs, and some of them are in the House right now, actually get up and defend the paramedics or defend their rural communities where ambulance services are being nonchalantly and routinely gutted by the Liberal government since 2001. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have not seen a single one of them actually stand up and lock arms with their rural colleagues on this side of the House to stand up for our constituents and their constituents and hold the government to task, to say: "We're not going to put up with this any longer. We're not going to actually put up with the continued onslaught and the disrespect that this Premier and this Liberal government have been showing to not only the paramedics but to residents who live in rural communities, residents in these small communities." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Some of them are significant — these municipalities. Others are very small, and some of them are in remote areas even, especially first nations. Not a single one of them actually got up to defend, and I mentioned…. I think Kimberley is in the Minister of Community Development's constituency. How come I don't see the minister stand up to defend his community of Kimberley? How come I don't see the minister from Kamloops stand up, or the MLA for Kamloops–North Thompson, who sits a few seats to my left? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
How come I do not see any one of the Liberal MLAs from rural British Columbia, and cabinet ministers…? I see the cabinet minister from Prince George is also here. How come they don't stand up and fight for their communities? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1600]
How come they don't stand up to fight for their constituents, these paramedics, who are doing a fantastic job? How come they never get up to defend them? How come they don't stand up for their communities? How come it's always the NDP opposition who stands up to not only fight for the NDP constituents in our own communities and in our ridings…? I mentioned all these communities that I read out. They must be — what? — only, maybe, 1/10 or 1/15 of the master list that's out here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We're standing up. We're fighting for our own constituents. We're standing up, and half of those names that I read out here are constituencies held by members on the government side of the House, on the Liberal side of the House. Their constituencies, their communities, their constituents — members opposite sit muted, not a word. They don't take their place in the debate of Bill 21. But it is us, the members opposite, the New Democrat members, who are consistently and routinely standing up, fighting for the rights of our constituents and their constituents opposite, while they sit on their hands. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We have seen this happen every week here in the House, every month that we're here in the House. We've seen this happen for the last eight years, where members opposite do not fight for their own constituents. They do not stand up for their constituents, the paramedics. They don't stand up for the first nations who need the ambulance services and the paramedics. They don't stand up and actually talk for them. They don't stand up and fight for them. We're doing it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We've been doing it day in and day out, and we're going to continue to do that. We're going to stand up and fight for our constituents, and we're going to fight for the constituents opposite because their Liberal MLA refuses to do so. Consistently we've seen that happen over the last eight years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, my colleague from Columbia River–Revelstoke spoke so eloquently about the respect that he has for paramedics. I know other members opposite here on our side have as well. I'm going to continue in that vein, because of what the paramedics have been going through for the last number of years as the B.C. Liberals have systematically dismantled and destroyed the Ambulance Service in British Columbia through its chronic underfunding and neglect and their uncaring attitude. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
While they've done that, you just see the morale of all these paramedics and the folks that work for the Ambulance Service. They won't speak up for them, but we respect our paramedics. We respect the folks who work for the ambulance services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Whether it's the person who's driving the ambulance, or the paramedic who's doing the attending or doing the lifting, or the person who's sitting there in the ambulance services answering the phone call, or the person doing the paperwork, or the manager who's actually doing the managing, or the administrator or the head person in each one of these outfits who is doing what he or she is supposed to do in terms of the management, or the persons who are the baseline workers, on our side of the House, on the NDP side of the House we respect the job that each and every single person working in the Ambulance Service, including paramedics and administrators, does. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We respect the job that each one of them does. We do on this side of the House. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm still waiting for somebody on that side of the House, on the Liberal side, to actually stand up and say those very words and actually show that they care — show that they care about not only the people who deliver our ambulance service and our paramedics but also the people who receive the service on the other side, the people in all of those small communities spread out all throughout rural British Columbia, the first nations communities in the unincorporated territories and the unincorporated territories in the regional districts. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They're the ones who are hurt the most if they can't get adequate medical services in time because of this government's uncaring attitude and their neglect. That's the bottom line. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1605]
I want to show how much disrespect this government has shown. You know, the paramedics have taken a vote. They're still in the middle of it. They're still voting. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
H. Lali: Amazing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
H. Lali: Unbelievable. Unbelievable, and not because they're taking the vote. That's not what my member for the North Coast behind me is sitting there in disbelief over. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That vote has been going on for a while. The Minister of Health knows about it. Cabinet ministers know about it. The Premier knows about it. Every single one of these Liberal MLAs who sit to my left…. It's amazing they're actually sitting to my left — behind me to my left, in front of me to my left, right in front of me, you know…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
H. Lali: The member from Langley says it's to his right. It's unfathomable to think that somebody would actually be to the right of that member, but there are some Liberals who are even to the right of him. All of those Liberals…. I'm waiting for some of them…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
H. Lali: Well, wait until the 2013 election. If the minister thinks there are not enough Liberals in the House, wait until 2013. There will be even less of them after 2013, with the way that they're doing things. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Is there a single member on the opposite side, even those folks that sit behind me, the Liberals there…? Does any one of them even know that there's a vote taking place? I know the member for North Coast said it's unbelievable that they wouldn't, but there's a vote taking place. It's part of the collective agreement process. It's part of our democratic right and our democratic process as part of the union to have a vote when there is an offer ahead of you. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"Here's one side," the government says to them. You know, there's an agreement –– bargaining taking place. They're having a vote. They're not even finished the vote. The vote hasn't even been counted. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
My good friend the Minister of Health doesn't even know if it's a negative or a positive vote, but he's sponsoring…. He came in here with this Bill 21. He says: "Regardless of how you guys vote or which way you vote, I'm going to take this sledgehammer, and I'm going to show you that you guys can't do this. You guys can't go on strike. You folks can't do this. We're going to legislate you guys back to work. We're going to impose an agreement on you guys because we the government have this big, big, huge sledgehammer that we can use through the Legislature." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's what's happening — unbelievable. My good friend from the North Coast says: "Unbelievable." Isn't it unbelievable? It's unprecedented. While the union takes a vote, the employer, the government decides: "Oh, no, we're not going to wait for the results, because we've got this hammer. We're going to use it, and why are we going to use it? Because we can." That's what the government is telling them. "We're going to use it because we can." They're government, and they're going to use it — unbelievable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. Speaker, I also want to go through that list I was telling you about just a few minutes ago of some communities. I won't read about all of them, but I'm going to read about some of them in terms of the paramedic data from '08 and '09 that's been supplied here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The B.C. Ambulance Service has actually set a benchmark of reaching 90 percent of critical calls within nine minutes. That's the government's ambulance service. They set the rules. So the B.C. Ambulance Service has set a benchmark of reaching 90 percent of critical calls within nine minutes. In 2007-2008 they reached this benchmark only 52 percent of the time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You'd think it might have rung some alarm bells in the minds of the cabinet. "Okay, we set the rules –– 90 percent. It's only at 52 percent. There's something wrong. Let's go out there and talk to the people who know best. These are the folks on the ground ––paramedics and the Ambulance Service on the ground. Let's talk to them and ask them: 'How are we going to improve this? What's needed?'" [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1610]
You'd think somebody might…. The little light might have gone click — on. "That's the idea. Let's go talk to them." No, those are their own rules. You know, this is only in urban and metropolitan areas. In rural areas it's far worse. In remote and rural areas they almost never even reach this benchmark of 52 percent. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm going to give you some examples. I'm not picking and choosing, you know, looking for the worst examples or the community of the member from Prince George or the community of the member from the Chilliwack area — I guess he's only got one community — or of some of the other rural members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
No, I'm not picking and choosing. I'm actually going with communities I represented. That's it — in one area, all those communities, whether it was in Yale-Lillooet or now in Fraser-Nicola. Remember, they set a benchmark of 90 percent for critical calls within nine minutes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Ashcroft, rural. They've had a 75.13 percent increase between '02 and '09 in terms of the calls. The percentage of the calls reached in less than nine minutes: 31 percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Boston Bar, which is not in my constituency now. It's remote. It's unincorporated. Over 70 percent increase in the calls, and the percentage of time they actually reached it within nine minutes: 7.14 percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Clinton, another remote. Over 86 percent increase in the calls, and the number of times they reached it within nine minutes: 3.57 percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hope, which used to be in my riding. I don't know why it's called urban, because it's at the end of the Fraser Valley. They call it urban. It should be rural. Although there's a drop in terms of the number of calls, they reached it in under nine minutes just a touch, 29½ percent of the time. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Keremeos, which is outside my constituency now. It's rural. A 110 percent increase in the number of calls. How many times did they reach it within nine minutes? Only 42½ percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Lillooet, which is in my constituency of Fraser-Nicola. It's rural. There's a 123 percent increase in the number of calls. How many times did they reach it within nine minutes? That's 46 percent. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Lytton — 85½ percent increase in the calls. How many times did they reach it within nine? It was 4.17 percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Merritt, my home community. It's rural. A 69.67 percent increase in the number of calls, and reaching it within nine minutes: only 47.88 percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Princeton, which is a rural community. There's a 68.66 percent increase in the number of calls, and how many times did they reach it within nine minutes? It was 37.66 percent. That's it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
All of these communities that are listed here…. When you look at it, some of the records are even worse than some of the communities in my riding that I talked about. When you go to the north coast or the Cariboo or the communities surrounding Kamloops, in the Kamloops–North Thompson, or you go to the communities in the Peace River country or Prince George, where the minister is from, in those areas, in every area, all of those small communities…. In some of those communities the record is even worse. You'd think somebody might do something about it when they see that kind of a dismal record. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to share some stories here with you as well. In Princeton — this was a couple of years ago, and for some reason my computer has kind of crashed and I couldn't get the name back out again; it was about two and a half years ago — there was a young couple, and the man's wife was going to have a baby. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Went to the Princeton hospital in Princeton, and you know what? They didn't send him in an ambulance to go to Penticton. They asked him: "How fast can you drive?" He had to take his pregnant wife in his own truck — this is in the middle of the winter — and drive from Princeton to Penticton, which is well over an hour's drive. In the winter it would be even more. It would be about an hour and a half. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1615]
They didn't quite make it to Penticton general. Why? Because he had to stop on the side of the road and actually deliver the baby himself. This is the reality under a Liberal world. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In 2003 go closer to home. My wife was expecting, and a doctor told us: "Go to the Merritt hospital first." I drove her to the Merritt hospital. My kids were in the back seat. And in Merritt they basically said: "How fast can you drive?" Those exact words. No ambulance, no. "How fast can you drive?" [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Here driving in the middle of the night…. It's past midnight — summer. I'm driving fairly fast, over the speed limit, to get there because my wife's ready to push. I was going around one corner, and I thought, I just decided: "I'd better slow down. There might be an animal on the road." Sure enough, I slowed down. I went around the corner, and there was a deer that was crossing the road — some animal; I don't know if it was a deer. I think it was a wolf or something. Sure enough, around the corner there it was. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But in any case, we got to the hospital, Royal Inland Hospital. They didn't even do anything in terms of checking us in or whatever like that. They said to me: "Just go park your car. We'll take care of your wife." I go to park the car and I go into the hospital, and about three minutes later our baby was born. That's the reality under a Liberal world. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
One doesn't have to go too far to read about stories in newspapers. Each one of us here on both sides of the House has friends or relatives or somebody we know, our neighbour or somebody well known in the community, who has gone through similar situations. Nobody has to make anything up. You don't have to read anything in newspapers or watch the TV. These are real stories. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government has refused to deal with the paramedics issue. And how are they dealing with it while the voting is still taking place? The hammer of legislation. That's the kind of respect that they show to those very people who are in the business of saving lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are health care professionals. These are people in the health field whose job it is to actually save lives, to transport sick people from one community to another, from one hospital to another or from an accident scene where there's all sorts of blood and everything and broken bones and the devastation of accidents that takes place. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They're often or, in most cases, the first people who are there to respond to these kinds of situations. How does this government show respect for the kind of work that they do? By bringing down the legislative hammer. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Not a single one of these folks from rural British Columbia that are Liberal MLAs is actually going to stand up and vote against this and say: "No. It's time we actually showed some respect for some of our lowest-paid health care workers in our province of British Columbia." That's how the Liberals deal with these kinds of situations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to read, actually, something from the Hope Standard, April 1, 2009. This is a story. It says Howard Johnson has been a paramedic for over 20 years and currently works in a rural community. He compared his recent experience in Regina with B.C.'s ambulance service, and he says: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"Their equipment made our equipment look archaic. We are required to manually lift and assemble our equipment — chair cot and stretcher — while their new equipment has hydraulics and can be assembled by the push of a button. Since implementing their new equipment, the responding paramedics told me that they have not had one back or shoulder injury.
"Yet new equipment that the B.C. Ambulance Service has been supplied with is heavier than our usual stretcher and requires additional strength to operate. Currently with obese patients, another ambulance crew or a fire department has to be called out just to assist with the lift, using resources that could have been required for a motor vehicle accident or another medical emergency."
I want to read another one from the Goldstream (News) Gazette, May 5, 2009. Chris Meyer has been a full-time paramedic for 28 years, and he wrote this piece. Way back when, he says, paramedics were on par with Vancouver police. Chris mentioned that a Vancouver paper found in the fall of 2008 that of the most dangerous jobs in B.C., paramedics were No. 2, just behind steelworkers at No. 1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1620]
Chris said: "It would appear that we are six places ahead of the next most dangerous emergency responders. We get spit at, puked on, assaulted, degraded by the employer and generally left unsupported. We are exposed to things the rest of you don't want to deal with, and we have to resolve the repercussions of dealing with car fatalities, drug deaths, suicides, and regular calls." These are not made-up stories. These are real. These are absolutely real. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Then on February 21, 2009, a woman collapsed at an event in Invermere. The 911 call was picked up by Kelowna dispatch, which was then transferred to the Kamloops call centre of the B.C. Ambulance Service, which, in turn, contacted the Invermere unit. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minimum wait time, according to observers, was 30 minutes for an ambulance. A local councillor, Bob Campsall, said they could have had her at the hospital within minutes. The woman was eventually confirmed to have had a stroke. She was taken to the Invermere and District Hospital before being transported to Calgary. This is from the Invermere Valley Echo, March 3, 2009. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I will be voting alongside my colleagues against this. I want to thank you, Madam Speaker, for the extra couple of minutes to finish this off. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: While the member takes his seat, I will caution him on the use of the commentary of who is present and who is absent in the chamber. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Coons: I rise to take my place to debate Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. As we start this debate…. It's not much of a debate. We're only having one side of the story here. As we look at this appalling, shocking legislation, well, again, it's not really all that surprising. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[C. Trevena in the chair.]
People that have followed the B.C. Liberal government in the last eight years expected this — expected this draconian, archaic type of legislation to come through at a time when the union is taking a vote on this. It's going to be released Friday, the results. They could have waited until Friday or next week and then decided what they needed to do, but no. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This bill is just unprecedented in how it's interrupting the collective bargaining process. Instead of using the process of free collective bargaining, they undermine the rights of workers throughout the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
G. Coons: Now, I hear some comments on the other side. I'm glad the member is making some comments. Less than a year ago we had a motion in this House on November 24, 2008. The motion was from our colleague on this side Charlie Wyse, from Cariboo South. This is the motion: "Be it resolved that this House recognize the value of the ambulance service provided by the Province of BC and the importance of continued improvement to this service." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At that time we had some of the members on the other side stand up. They stood tall, arm in arm on their side, mind you. But now where are they? They're cowering in their chairs. They're being forced to sit there. All they got is some heckling. That's all you got coming out of you. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Come on. Have the gumption to stand up and comment on this bill. No. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
G. Coons: The member for Nechako Lakes, who may be sitting in the House…. Somebody is sending some comments over. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Member, no comments about who is or isn't in the House. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Coons: Or he may not be in the House. I'm sorry, hon. Chair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The member for Nechako Lakes last November talked about how critical the Ambulance Service is. He actually said this. "We have done a lot with paramedics, and I am pleased to stand here and support paramedics," continues the hon. member for Nechako Lakes last November: "because they do provide an incredible service in this province. I look forward to continuing to work with them in the years to come." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"I look forward to working with them in the years to come." In less than a year look at what they are doing to the valuable paramedics in this province. It's shameful, and he should sit there with his head down. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1625]
We also had other members stand up and talk about how valuable our paramedics are, their paramedics are. The member for Burnaby-Lougheed also had some comments. But where are they today? They are missing in action. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, this bill should be about respect and trust, but what we have is a government taking a 2-by-4 and hitting our paramedics across the face with it, and that's shameful. This Bill 21 calls for a retroactive one-year deal, and it legislates them back to work from their essential service. It also puts a legislated contract on our paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We've seen that before. The bargaining history of this government is just outrageous. We've seen it under Bill 27, Bill 28, where they ripped up contracts, even though they promised not to rip up contracts. That's what they've been doing in their reign of terror with workers in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What could they have done? Well, the paramedics called for, and we supported, an independent arbitrator to settle the strike months ago. But, no, they chose to just sit on their hands. Now they're imposing a settlement that is going to put labour strife throughout the province, especially when we start moving towards the Olympics and after the Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's interesting, when we talk about the Olympics, because a lot of people were wondering where this legislation is coming from. The minister starts talking about, "It's as light a touch as possible," because it's only for one year. Well, "as light a touch as possible" just shows how out of touch this minister actually is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This bill will only inflame labour relations throughout the province at a time when, in the recession, we need to be working together. What they do is they bring forth this appalling piece of legislation that's going to put collective bargaining way back into the dinosaur years, where these guys are. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister, this government claims that it's necessary to introduce this legislation because of the H1N1 crisis. You know, there hasn't been an urgency until now. We could have waited until Friday. That's when the results of the strike vote are going to be forthcoming. They could have waited a couple of days, but no. They hammer this through, and they're going to put back our labour relations, set it back years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government also claims that it's because of overworked managers. But when we look at the overwork, the essential services that they put in require paramedics to work overtime. There isn't much change to that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister is in this realm of blame, blame, blame. He blames the union. He blames the paramedics. He blames the president of CUPE. He should be waiting for the vote to finish, and he's ramming through this legislation that, as I said before, is archaic. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, we start wondering, as I mentioned: why is this coming forward? Well, there's speculation out there that this is all because of the Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
G. Coons: It's speculation, they say. I hear it from the members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
G. Coons: I sure look forward to the members standing up and taking part in the debate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjections.
Deputy Speaker: Order, Members. Order. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Continue, Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Coons: When we look at this memo that came out earlier in the fall…. It was sent from Dr. Mike Wilkinson. He's director of medical services at VANOC. It went to Stephen Brown; Lee Doney, who is the CEO of ambulance services; and other government officials. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1630]
This memo, in part, stated: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"VANOC Medical Services, and thus the IOC, requires definitive confirmation by October 1, 2009, that all required ambulance services will be provided as planned. These services include the ability to engage the VPCs and the B.C. Ambulance Service members in full venue-planning as soon as possible. This confirmation must also include a guarantee that no services during the games will be disrupted or reduced from what was planned.
"If we are unable to obtain that guarantee through either settlement of the strike or legislated détente for the games, then VANOC will be required to initiate alternative contingency plans to avoid cancellation of the games."
Here it is. This is all based on, not the H1N1 crisis, just fearmongering by the minister. It's not because of the overworked managers. It's because they want to interrupt free collective bargaining. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When we look at this unprecedented move that this government has done…. It's the first time in Canadian labour history that a government, any government, has forced public employees to accept a collective agreement while the union is in the middle of voting for it. It's unbelievable that this government would do that. But again, we get used to it. We've got what happened throughout the years under this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I look back to the previous Minister of Health's comments about collective bargaining in this House. The previous Minister of Health, in May 2006, was confronted in question period about the struggles that the paramedics were having in our communities, especially in rural and remote communities. The Minister of Health back then said that their new collective agreement was endorsed by all and that it was a freely negotiated collective agreement. So obviously, he believed in freely negotiated collective agreements. But not on this day does this government believe in that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Last year, February 2008, the minister said again, when questioned in question period about an agreement signed, endorsed, by the union: "We're not going to breach it." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Here they are in the middle of free collective bargaining. The union is having a strike vote, and it's coming out in two days. What do we have? We have this shameful, archaic piece of legislation coming forth. It's an attack not only on the paramedics throughout British Columbia but on all workers across the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When we look at the impact on future labour relations that this will have…. We have public sector bargaining coming up next year, 2010, and this heavy-handed move by the government has damaged the possibility of meaningful collective bargaining for the rest of the public sector. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's something, probably, that they did on purpose. Over the last eight years, we've seen how they've treated workers across the province, how they've treated children, how they've treated women, the most vulnerable and especially rural communities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What we've seen and what I've heard from a lot of my constituents…. The riding I represent is Prince Rupert — Lax Kw’alaams, Metlakatla, Kitkatla, Hartley Bay, Haida Gwaii, down the central coast, Klemtu, Bella Bella, Bella Coola and Rivers Inlet. When I travel through the riding, I make a point of trying to talk to our paramedics, who are out there hoping for the respect and trust of their government. A bill like this just flies in the face of any respect and trust from this Liberal government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1635]
Over the years we've talked about the concerns that we have for our paramedics: the $2 pager pay, the problems of recruitment, the concerns with training, the uncertainty of actually having ambulance services in the rural communities. Again, this blatant attack on the credibility of our paramedics is shameful from this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On this side of the House…. I don't know about the other side of the House. They haven't stood up at all. They haven't put forth any arguments for why we need to do this. I got an e-mail from Jeff today. He wanted to send a thank-you note to the members who are speaking on their behalf: "I am, at this point, the most demoralized that I have ever been while working for the B.C. Ambulance Service, and there have been a lot of low points. Seeing someone who actually cares is somewhat uplifting." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What this government should be doing is working with our paramedics and ensuring that they're feeling this way and not demoralized and angry. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Jen, who's from Denman Island, sent an e-mail out. "It's very tough for me to survive financially with the current situation. I am unable to lateral out of the rural station I work at on Denman Island. I make $2 an hour sitting at my station waiting for a call. When I get a call, I get my regular wage at four hours' pay. However, I've only had three calls in nine months. I am doing this to help other people. That is why I am still fighting." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's why we're, on this side, opposing this bill. That's why we are still fighting for our paramedics throughout the province, while we have the cone of silence over on the other side. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Throughout the last three or four years, where we've been bringing up the concerns of recruitment, of training, of wages and benefits, the other side — the B.C. Liberal government — has treated our paramedics shamefully. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Recently, a couple of months ago in the newspaper, in the Prince Rupert Daily News, there was a letter from Kristy Schwinning. Her husband is a paramedic. She says: "Because of the $2-an-hour pager wage, he does not make enough money to quit his full-time job, so he works Monday to Friday at a sawmill and then drives hours to the station to put in Saturday and Sunday shifts. On weekends when he did not receive a call, he would end up making $48 for the whole weekend. Subtract gas, food, etc. while he's away, and he'd come home owing money." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are the people that we are legislating back to work and legislating a contract. That's shameful. He's invested 18 months and thousands of dollars to further his paramedic career, and Kristy says: "I often wonder why he stays working for an employer who just doesn't seem to care about him. The answer never changes. He loves his job. He is good at it too." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's why we're here. That's why we're here challenging Bill 21, called the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. What a title. This is not a collective agreement. This is an imposed agreement by this government on our valuable paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Chris Meyer, who's been a full-time paramedic for 20 years, mentions that in one of the newspapers in 2008, they found that the most dangerous job in B.C…. Out of all the jobs, paramedics were No. 2, just behind steelworkers, who were No. 1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
He says, and this is a quote from Chris Meyer, who is a paramedic: "It would appear that we are six places ahead of the next most dangerous emergency responders. We get spit at, puked on, assaulted, degraded by the employer and generally left unsupported. We are exposed to things the rest of you don't want to deal with, and we have to resolve the repercussions of dealing with car fatalities, drug deaths, suicides and regular calls." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1640]
This is a fact of their daily life, and we need to treat them with respect and trust. This Bill 21 before us just throws that right back in their faces. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If we look at some of the data that we have before us and that we know about, paramedic data from 2008-2009…. We have it for community, for stations throughout the province: the type of station, the call volume, the percent increase that they've had in the last six or seven years and the response time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If I look at some of the stations in my riding…. I look at Prince Rupert. Prince Rupert in the last seven years has had a 49.7 percent increase in call volume from 2002 to 2009. Their average response time is just over nine minutes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As our communities, especially in rural British Columbia, have been decimated under this Liberal government because of no forestry policy, no social policy and no economic policy, we see a lot of the impacts falling upon the most vulnerable in our communities, who are probably the increase in the call volume. That's shameful as we move forward with this Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Bella Coola there's an 11 percent increase in the call volume. In Sandspit there's a 68 percent increase in call volume. In Port Clements, which is a small community, they've got dedicated ambulance paramedics who work long and hard, who volunteer their time, not only in Port Clements but in Sandspit, Bella Coola, Prince Rupert, Masset and Queen Charlotte. They had a 250 percent call increase from 2002 to 2009. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When this legislation came out yesterday, one of the paramedics, a chief paramedic in Port Clements, contacted me. He says…. I think it's better that it's coming from the front-line workers, the people that this legislation is going to impact. They need to have a place to voice their concerns. It's not coming from the ridings of the Liberals on the other side, because they're sitting on their hands, being silent and saying nothing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This paramedic chief in Port Clements says — I'm going to read this portion of the letter: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"It is difficult to summarize my feelings about a legislated contract, but suffice to say, it includes anger, disappointment and fear. I am angry because CUPE has bargained in good faith, unlike the government. I am disappointed because this gives me no incentive to continue working for B.C. Ambulance. And finally, I am very scared because if this legislation passes, then it truly confirms that the government has no respect for the job I do and, more importantly, no respect for the citizens of British Columbia."
No respect for the job this paramedic does, and no respect for the citizens of British Columbia. That's the take of our paramedics out there. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
He continues:
"I already knew about the lack of respect for the citizens of B.C." — as we all did on this side of the House and in most of British Columbia — "when last week they relocated paramedic crews to the Olympic test events while, at the same time, leaving 20 ambulances unstaffed around the province."
Coming from a rural area, when we looked at unstaffed ambulances…. It's a part of life for us in rural British Columbia. On many long weekends throughout the north coast, there are ambulances that do not have enough staff, and you just pray something does not happen. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1645]
This paramedic chief continues: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"As a part-time employee, with the essential-services order no longer in effect, I will no longer be obligated to work my historical availability, and I can assure you, I have no interest in working for B.C. Ambulance at all. I'll be spending my new-found free time with my family — unless of course, I get conscripted to work again like the essential-services order."
And he continues: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"Thank you for the support that you have given us as paramedics and for your colleagues."
When we see a piece of legislation come forth like this, which could have waited until after the vote on Friday…. I would think that a letter like this…. The comments like this from this paramedic would probably be the same throughout the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When we look at what's in Bill 21 and see what's happening as far as legislating them back to work and legislating a contract…. We've seen this in the history of this government. You know, there were Bill 27, Bill 28 and Bill 29. Bill 27 was the Education Services Collective Agreement Act. Bill 28 was the Public Education Flexibility and Choice Act. Bill 29, the Health and Social Services Delivery Improvement Act. All of these, all they did was look at collective bargaining and rip it to the core. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We saw in this House with the two members…. When these bills were coming forward, the two members were on here for 17 straight hours of debate on the legislation to privatize health and education, lay off thousands of workers, increase class size, rip up contracts. It was passed into law by this government. Hour after hour, the two members on this side stood tall. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We have legislation like Bill 21 that is so vital to labour peace throughout the province, and every single member on the other side sits on their hands and fails to rise — fails to rise to support our paramedics, the key components to our communities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm particularly appalled that none of the rural MLAs from the Liberal side are standing up to tell their stories — to let British Columbians, to let the House, know how they feel and how their constituents feel. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Going back to the history, back with Bills 28 and 29, there was one MLA from the other side that stood tall and joined the two NDP MLAs opposing the legislation. Well, who was that? That would be the Peace River MLA. I'm surprised. I'm surprised that we don't see the member rising again, at least making some comments to this bill, or any other of his colleagues who may have a shred of integrity, who may have something to say. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I remember those days. I was a teacher when those bills came forward. I think I might have sent an e-mail to the member expressing gratitude, the same as the paramedics are expressing gratitude to this side of the House. I'm not too sure what types of e-mails the members on the other side are getting, but I don't think it's gratitude. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When we look at what's been happening with this government and the ambulance paramedics…. They've been warned. The paramedics told this government that any type of legislation to impose a contract will neither resolve the dispute with the paramedics nor improve the rapidly deteriorating ambulance response times. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They warned this government that imposing a contract will have a huge impact on labour relations. They've put out to this government that…. This is a quote from the ambulance paramedics: "We have a B.C. Ambulance Service that is in critical condition, and we have ambulance paramedics without a new collective agreement. It will take both sides working together to resolve both of these issues." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1650]
They have worked with and talked with the government calmly and clearly: "Don't impose a contract on our members that we will not accept." Taking away their legal right to collect and bargain and take a very limited strike under the government's own essential services will only make a bad situation much worse, and that's what this bill is doing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Right now the Ambulance Service is saying that the Ambulance Service only meets its emergency response time goal of arriving in under nine minutes 52 percent of the time, compared to 85 percent in 1985. We need a contract that is bargained collectively with the paramedics, and we need members on the other side to stand tall and vote against Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On that, I will cede my spot. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
M. Karagianis: I will take my place in what I consider to be a fairly sad and sorry piece of legislation that we're debating today in the House. My colleague the previous speaker alluded to a story that appeared in my local paper, the Goldstream Gazette. I'd like to go back to that for a moment, because for me it kind of sets the baseline for my concerns about this piece of legislation and what has happened here in the province of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As the previous member had talked about, Chris Meyer is a 28-year full-time paramedic here and wrote a piece in the Goldstream Gazette recently, where he pointed out a couple of really interesting facts. Chris, of course, has been a paramedic long enough to remember when paramedics were on par with the Vancouver police in the way of pay. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth now than that kind of parity with police or fire departments. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Chris talks about the fact that a survey had been done on the job of paramedics and that it was rated as the second most dangerous job in the province — the second most dangerous job. Chris goes on to say that in the line of work: "We get spit at, puked on, assaulted, degraded by the employer and generally left unsupported. We are exposed to things that the rest of you don't want to deal with, and we have to resolve the repercussions of dealing with car fatalities, drug deaths, suicides and other regular calls." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What concerns me about this is that in fact we have paramedics doing a job that I, quite frankly, could not do and that I suspect many members in this House could not do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
My oldest daughter was an ambulance paramedic between Gold River and Campbell River for some time. She has since become a nurse and is practising in Campbell River, but in the years that she was doing that job, I actually could not listen to the stories of her experiences because I feared for the kind of work she was doing, the experience that she was having, the kind of stress and trauma that it was causing in her own life, and just the nature of the work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have nothing but the deepest admiration for paramedics and for the kind of work they do because, as Chris very clearly says here, paramedics are doing the kind of job that most of us don't want to deal with, and they end up, like anyone who works with constant trauma, bearing just an enormous amount of stress on the job. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For that, unfortunately, here in the province the expectations that have been put on them by the government are, I think, way beyond the call of duty. When we are expecting that one of the series of our emergency service personnel in this province, ranked along with police and fire and probably emergency staff in hospitals…. When we are expecting paramedics to work under the conditions that have been imposed on them by the government, to me it's pretty tragic. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1655]
We have individuals who are on call on a pager being paid $2 an hour. We have individuals who are manning a station for $10 an hour and are only paid a decent wage on the basis of the calls that they make — calls that, as clearly discussed here by Chris Meyer and by the experience I know my daughter had, are demanding heroic behaviour. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Yet we are paying these individuals an unbelievably penurious and insulting wage to be on call for the purpose of, when the 911 call goes in, rising to the occasion and becoming heroes that save our lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Frankly, in this province we all anticipate that when we dial 911, a paramedic will come and will rescue us and save us from the heart attack or the car accident or the other innumerable number of tragedies that occur that get us to dial 911 and expect a trained, professional, heroic paramedic will be there to save our lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For that we are paying them an on-call pager wage of 2 bucks an hour and a station wage of $10 an hour. That's the basis on which paramedics have been struggling to provide us with those heroic services here for a number of years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This summer I was on Mayne Island, where the ambulance paramedics there, of course, like many of our other emergency services, have days when there are a lot of calls and days where there are very few calls. We ended up sitting down to dinner, a group of us. Many of them are friends of my daughter who lives there. We began to talk about how difficult it was for them to maintain that job and to stay on Mayne Island and provide that emergency service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At the kinds of wages they were all being paid — they, for the most part, were on their pagers waiting for that call for 2 bucks an hour — they couldn't afford rent unless there was a tragedy or several tragedies or several emergencies in a day. They would, therefore, get paid a reasonable wage that would allow them to pay the rent and feed themselves. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For me, it really put the whole thing into perspective. We have individuals who are professionally trained to save our lives that we are allowing to sit and work for $2 an hour, on call, waiting for some tragedy to call them into service where they can use those skills to save a life. How that squares with the ability to pay your rent and put food on the table and all the other things that we would take as a given for professional emergency personnel to be able to do…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Bill 21 that we see before us here is interfering with a process that I believe has been long overdue, which is the bargaining that's been undertaken here by paramedics with the government. The basis of this just seems to me to be so obvious — that these paramedics deserve to have had the right to collective bargaining. They certainly have, for a very long time, called for arbitration. It seems to me that the government has been perfectly happy to ignore that for many months now. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Pre-election it wasn't a big issue for them. Post-election, apparently, now that we've moved forward into the fall, it's become a dire circumstance, where they're going to come in and use the kind of legislation they are with Bill 21 to impose an agreement upon these paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1700]
I opened this by saying that it was a sad and sorry day, and it is. It's actually a very sad day, which means we have to come in here and impose a collective agreement on individuals who have been so poorly treated and have had such overwhelmingly poor treatment at the hands of government around wages and some of the other things they are asking for. In the process of their own bargaining agreement, before they could even come to a vote, the government has somehow felt this urgency around suddenly bringing down Bill 21 and imposing an agreement upon the paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The fact remains that despite the paramedics having been on strike since April, they have continued to serve our communities in a seamless way. In fact, I think there have been discussions on public radio and certainly in my community among the people I know about the fact that it was a fairly benign strike. At no point have the paramedics let down the people of British Columbia, despite the lack of a living wage, despite the fact that they were trying to bargain in good faith with the government and were being ignored. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Despite all of that, the paramedics have continued to do that heroic job and be on the front lines ensuring that services were provided to British Columbians. It makes very little sense to me that suddenly in November, we now find ourselves in a situation where the government is coming in and saying that they have to somehow impose legislation on this group. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The essential services order has continued to protect the public. It has not interfered in any way with the public's confidence and their ability to dial 911 and get a paramedic when they need one and where they need one. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Even when communities have been stretched to the breaking point.... I know many of my colleagues have talked about the very thin resources on the ground in rural communities and, in fact, in some of our suburban communities as well. It's not strictly a rural problem. Despite that, paramedics have continued, in a thoroughly professional way as most of us would expect, to be there when we need them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It somehow seems contrary at this point that the government has felt it necessary to come in and impose Bill 21 on our paramedics. It is senseless in so many ways. I have to wonder exactly what the true driving force behind this is, and there are probably some clues in some of the information that we have. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have a copy here of a memorandum that was sent from Dr. Mike Wilkinson, director of medical services for VANOC, to Stephen Brown, Lee Doney and other government officials with regard to the Olympics. It would seem to me in many ways.... I know that the minister in delivering this talked about H1N1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We are actually at the second wave of the H1N1 virus, and the government didn't feel compelled in the first wave of the H1N1 to impose this kind of legislation. Frankly, I don't buy the fact that this is the big incentive at this point to impose this legislation. If the H1N1 had truly been the motivator, then it would seem to me we would have done something long before this. In a very skeptical way, I don't buy the government's premise that this is about H1N1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In fact, I think it is about this in some ways. This memorandum that came down said: "VANOC Medical Services, and thus the IOC, require definitive confirmation by October 1, 2009, that all required ambulance services will be provided as planned." Of course, we're expected to supply emergency service and ambulance service to the Olympic Games when they are here in a couple of months. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1705]
This memorandum goes on to say: "These services include the ability to engage the VPCs and BCAS members in full venue planning as soon as possible. This confirmation must also include a guarantee that no services during the games will be disrupted or reduced from what has been planned." Very interesting. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It goes on to say: "If we are unable to obtain that guarantee through either settlement of the strike" — the strike being, of course, paramedics in the province —"or legislated détente for the games, then VANOC will be required to initiate alternative contingency plans to avoid cancellation of the games." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There is a very compelling reason — much more compelling than H1N1 because, of course, we're in the second wave of that flu. There is a much more compelling reason to clear the decks. The suggestion is right in here: a settlement of the strike or legislated détente. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I would surmise from this that this is probably one of the many things at the heart of the real issue around legislating these paramedics back to work. There have been many opportunities for the government to take all kinds of advantage of the offers by the paramedics for arbitration, for discussion. Government has refused up to this point. They've ignored the paramedics up to this point, for the most part. They've ignored this situation despite the fact that it was in their face during the election. There was no mention of that during the election. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think the real impetus behind Bill 21, or at least one of the impetuses behind Bill 21, is this memorandum about the Olympic Games and the requirement by VANOC and thus IOC — as is alluded to here — to make sure there is no possibility of a strike or an appearance of a strike that would in any way undermine confidence in the Olympic planning for ambulance services. I think that's one of the huge issues behind this legislation today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If we look at the situation and the years of neglect of this critical issue around British Columbia, in rural British Columbia…. That's been canvassed very, very adequately and very well by my colleagues. In fact, we've raised the issue over and over again in the House for a number of years now. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Again, the government felt in no way that the underlying issues around the treatment of paramedics, around the lack of decent pay, around the requirement for individuals to work from the goodness of their heart rather than from a just and fair living wage…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You have to ask yourself, again, why they now feel that coming in with this hammer is the appropriate action and the appropriate way to treat this group of individuals who supply an essential emergency service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
More than that, it sends a very chilling message, I think, to all those who will be bargaining, or expect to bargain, here in 2010. When you look back at all of the collective agreements that were settled with such a flourish by government in order to keep a clean slate through the Olympics — many of them will be expiring just after the Olympics — of course the paramedics were the only fly in the ointment. In fact, their agreement has been inadequate, and they are now bargaining and were expecting to bargain in an open and respectful way. They have not been treated that way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This really does send a chill, I think, and a very chilling message to everyone else who wants to bargain their agreements shortly after the 2010 Olympics are completed and finished here in the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1710]
So 2010 will be a very interesting year, I suspect, given all the various actions that the B.C. Liberal government has taken, all the cuts that communities have experienced in order for us to pay for the Olympics. Frankly, lots of my community members believe that the cuts are directly about making sure that a lavish event takes place here for a few, at the expense of vulnerable people in my community. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Certainly, we're going to see now that the B.C. Ambulance Service is going to be legislated back to work and will continue to have to survive on these outrageous conditions of $2 an hour to sit by your pager or $10 an hour to sit in a station and be available to provide vital emergency services when they're required. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can't imagine that we would expect the same circumstances to exist for other emergency personnel here. We wouldn't expect emergency nurses to sit around for $2 an hour waiting for an emergency to come through the door in a hospital. We certainly wouldn't tolerate that in any way for our other emergency service providers, like fire and police — that you only get paid when you're out doing the job, that you're only paid when you're fighting a fire or when you're out arresting a criminal. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's not how emergency services work. In many ways, we pay for the insurance that when you dial 911, that service is there. Whether it be police, fire, ambulance, that service is there. That's our insurance as people in British Columbia — that our tax dollars go to make sure that those services are there for us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know from my years in municipal government that the number one cost for communities is around ensuring that those emergency services are there, because when it's about saving a life, then your insurance premiums have definitely paid for themselves. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Yet our insurance premiums here, if I can quote them as such, for ambulance workers is that you're going to sit around for $2 an hour despite the fact that the young people on Mayne Island can't even afford to live on $2 an hour waiting for an emergency. I know that the citizens of Mayne Island and of every other community like that, that is dependent on those individuals to be there, are appalled to think that those individuals are sitting there for $2 an hour or $10 an hour if they're in the station. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When that 911 call goes out and they rush to save you or me — or our children, our parents or whoever it is that needs those emergency services — there is no cost too high. But apparently, there is a baseline that the province will allow these paramedics to live on. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I see that the government has announced today that this commission to review ambulance service bargaining has been initiated. This came out this afternoon from the Labour Minister, announcing that he will appoint an industrial inquiry commission to put forward options for a new bargaining structure for ambulance paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At this point the government has never allowed binding arbitration to come into effect here. They have, I believe, purposely kept this issue out of any kind of binding arbitration, because I think the reality is that there is not any arbitration in the world that, given a fair chance, would allow these individuals to struggle with the kind of pay levels that they are being paid now. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It will be very interesting what happens with this commission. Of course, you have to ask yourself: why did this not get done earlier? The paramedics have been asking for this. Certainly, this is one of the things that they have listed. But the government did not feel compelled in any way to take these actions until this point in time either. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's a very curious piece of legislation to me. The timing of it is very interesting. I think, for me, the end-game here is a very, very curious thing. You have to say to yourself: what is the end-game? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1715]
Looking at the language…. Certainly, it's very clear that this language is not friendly language in any way. It says here in the explanatory note that this bill "settles the labour dispute between the Emergency and Health Services Commission and its ambulance paramedics and dispatchers, and provides for the constitution of a collective agreement between the parties." Well, they've already constituted their own collective agreement. They are voting on it this week, on a yes-or-no vote, and the government is coming in with this hammer in the middle of that process. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The terms here. The collective agreement will seen to be constituted when this legislation passes. The collective agreement will be binding. There will be a resumption of service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I go back again to what the minister said on the surface of this — that this was ostensibly about the H1N1. I earlier said that I didn't buy that, and I think that's true. I think that the end-game of this Bill 21 is absolutely not about H1N1, because in fact, ambulance services are there for us now. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They are currently dealing with whatever repercussions there are from the H1N1 flu virus right now. They're doing it today right out there, even as we speak and debate this bill. Whatever the repercussions are of this flu bug, the ambulance services of British Columbia are dealing with their part of the responsibilities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Certainly, most of the debate around H1N1, publicly and in this House and in the media, is not around whether the Ambulance Service is there for people. It's about all the other chaos that's going on around supplying vaccines. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We canvassed here in the House today that the government is busy laying off nurses in communities, nurses that would be administering the vaccine. That's the action that the government is taking. If they were so worried about the H1N1…. If they're using that as an excuse for bringing the hammer down on this process with paramedics, then I don't buy that at all, because they wouldn't be laying off nurses in rural British Columbia if they were worried about the repercussions of this H1N1 on communities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's a much more vital service that communities need right now — people to administer vaccines. The ambulance services and the paramedics in British Columbia are doing their job. They did it yesterday, they're doing it today, and they will do it tomorrow. The flu pandemic that's on right now is already being adequately served by paramedics, without the government having to hammer an agreement onto them and impose agreement on them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Perhaps this is about the Olympics, as we saw with the memo from VANOC. Yes, I think a huge part of this is about that. It's that several months out from the Olympics the IOC and VANOC want to ensure that this pesky little strike is not going to interfere with the games. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Frankly, I've also heard that the government has been unsuccessful in canvassing paramedics from other provinces to come to British Columbia to help supply services to the Olympics. That wouldn't surprise me in the least, because paramedics right across this country can see how we are treating our paramedics in British Columbia. Certainly, now that we are imposing this legislation on them, this will again send a very interesting message across the country around how British Columbia treats its paramedics in order to ensure that there will be no strike action during the Olympics and that ambulance services will be there as planned. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think there is one other end-game here. It is a larger end-game, which I know this government has been embarked on from the very beginning of their time in office, and that's about privatization. We have seen widespread privatization across all sectors in British Columbia under the B.C. Liberal government. Certainly, it has been a recurring debate — the privatization of health care services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think that at the heart of this is, in fact, privatization of the ambulance services. It's one other piece in the puzzle as the B.C. Liberal government works towards a wholesale privatization of as many of the services in British Columbia as possible. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1720]
We've certainly seen it creeping into the health care system in the way of private clinics. We have seen it with all the outsourcing that's gone on, with things like MSP premiums. We've certainly have seen it in other sectors like hydro. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I believe that the third piece of the end-game here is privatization, because I believe that the government is purposely keeping paramedic wages low so that it is not a profession that attracts a great deal of interest other than working for the goodness of your soul and because you're dedicated to a community and to supplying emergency services to your community because you care deeply. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's becoming less and less of an attractive job now that the government is manhandling even the democratic process of collective bargaining for this. I think that it's, again, about tearing the system down, breaking it on purpose, and then saying that privatization is the only answer and solution. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
S. Fraser: I'm rising today to take my place in this House to debate Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. I will not be speaking in favour of this bill, and I'll spend about 30 minutes to explain why that is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's bizarre that we're here debating this bill that basically undermines the process of bargaining in this province. You know, there are places in the world where workers have no rights, places like Burma where there is a military junta that ensures that workers are abused and not respected and have no rights. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Canada — we are so fortunate to be living in this great land — has a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, has protections in place that actually recognize workers' rights and the rights of collective bargaining in the constitution. If that isn't a great thing, I don't know what is. We should be so proud of that, and we should stand by that, and we need to defend that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, we're dealing today with a bill that undermines the basic rights of ambulance workers, paramedics, to a fair collective bargaining process. This is an act of thuggery by this Liberal government. The fact is that there is a vote occurring as we speak, this week. To bring in Bill 21 now is a show of muscle, a show of force, and it is unbecoming any government in this country we call Canada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But I guess it was not to be unexpected, following Bill 29. When this government came in, they stripped the rights of thousands of HEU workers in this province — a broken promise to go along with that. Now, a lengthy court case, the challenge of that from HEU, found that the government — the Premier, if you will — violated the rights established in the Charter. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I don't know what anyone else's opinion is on the government side, but I don't think there's any more fundamental role of a government in Canada than to protect the rights that are established and have been fought for and people have died for under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This government makes a mockery of governments in Canada by taking such positions instead of defending the rights of workers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These particular workers are emergency service workers. I've spoken with so many paramedics and ambulance workers in this province. They have a passion for the job. They have taken on the job because they care about their fellow human beings. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1725]
For every dime that the government spends on the ambulance service in British Columbia — which used to be, about ten years ago, probably the best in the world — it is paid back so many times over because of the passion and the caring that comes from paramedics and the ambulance workers in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As soon as the Liberal government got in, they started undermining and eroding this service that was arguably the best of its kind anywhere. The minister claimed that with this bill, Bill 21…. He's claiming that the legislation is about protecting health services in B.C. Well, it's exactly the opposite. The minister and his predecessors have been undermining this essential service of health care in this province since they got in. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They've been undermining the collective agreements, yes, but also, there have been maintenance issues. There are all kinds of problems around the delivery of this service. I think, if I read correctly in this year's budget, less than 1 percent of the entire health care budget is devoted to the B.C. Ambulance Service and paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, we have a great big province and many remote areas of this province. The B.C. Ambulance Service and the paramedics are the lifeline. They are the difference between life and death for people in medical trauma, in distress and in emergency situations. To not provide fair and adequate bargaining for these in some ways heroic people in our province is undermining the very concept of health care in the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We have in my constituency a health authority, Vancouver Island Health Authority, that has been shutting down services at hospitals in regions that are quite isolated. The Tofino hospital, for instance, doesn't just serve Tofino; it serves the district of Tofino, Ucluelet, all of the Nuu-chah-nulth communities of Clayoquot Sound. That hospital has been a great service to the whole region, but it hasn't been adequately maintained. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We're losing critical services like obstetrics. So if you're a woman in Ahousat, for instance, who is pregnant and is having some trauma…. She has to travel by boat for 50 minutes to get from Ahousat to Tofino, weather permitting, and get to the hospital that no longer has obstetrics. Now it's an ambulance service. This is paramedics bringing a woman in distress, pregnant, on a very twisty road, Highway 4, for two hours to the nearest hospital — Port Alberni, West Coast General. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The paramedics and the ambulance service are the lifeline for that woman and her expected child, and if it were not for them, because of the cuts to services, there would be no service for her. It's a stark reminder of just how important and how much it is not an understatement to say that our paramedics and our ambulance service are critical lifelines in our medical system. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In Port Alberni a couple of years ago VIHA shut down the psych ward with no consultation, with no discussions with the doctors, the community, no discussion with the RCMP, no discussion with the ambulance service and paramedics. Again, another service was removed, and another increase in reliance on our paramedics and on our ambulance service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
More and more in rural communities, in my constituency — it's not unique — and all across the province, because of cuts to vital health care in our hospitals we have seen a greater need and a greater reliance on our paramedics and our ambulance service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1730]
To undermine those workers that are picking up the slack from cuts in the health system that have been made, and that continue to be made by this government, is putting people at risk. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, we on this side of the House, the opposition, have been raising for years the problems in rural British Columbia, problems with ambulance services where there have been insufficient resources put towards funding and maintenance of ambulances and, certainly, paramedics' equipment. Yet our ambulance personnel, our paramedics, continue to do their good work — often with substandard equipment, sometimes with vehicles that aren't even drivable. That's become more the norm than ever before. Yet they continue to do the job. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Bill 21 is a direct slap in the face to those paramedics and ambulance workers who do the job because they care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
One of the issues that we have raised continually over the last number of years, from the opposition, has been around retention of people in this service. It's very difficult to stay in a job that has such high requirements of the people working in the job with less and less resources to do the job. They're being undermined. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So it's very difficult to retain paramedics and ambulance service. We're seeing a drop in numbers of people wanting to stay in that particular sector, and we're certainly seeing, and have been seeing, a very difficult time in recruitment. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know young people who have come right out of high school, in my constituency, who had been hoping their whole lives to become paramedics and who had taken many courses while they were going through high school. Then, of course, they have to pay for their own training to serve as a paramedic and ambulance service. The costs are high. Then they end up getting a job that they are passionate about but are only getting $2 an hour to be on a pager. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, I don't know if anyone else in this House has been on a pager as an emergency service person. I've been on a volunteer fire department in Tofino. Your life is on hold 24 hours a day — $2 an hour. I guess Bill 21 could potentially bring that up to $2.06 an hour — a slap in the face to paramedics in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There's been no attempt at a fair and collective bargaining process, and it's particularly difficult when there's an emergency service designation. Under the collective agreement, there's an attempt to negotiate in good faith with government, but the government knows that they've got them designated as an essential service. So they have a greater responsibility to honour the good-faith part of negotiations because they know that they hold a hammer over those people working as paramedics and in the Ambulance Service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the government disrespects that, when the government ignores the "fair" part of fair and collective bargaining, we have a big problem here. That's where the thuggery comes in. This is a strong-arm technique, and it's led to a point where there's a vote occurring this week. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There is a proposal on the table, and votes are being collected from the paramedics across the province, through CUPE, as we speak. Bill 21 is an affront to that entire process. It is an affront to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms when it comes to fair and collective bargaining, I would submit. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1735]
The minister also stated that the government was bringing this legislation in that it was necessary in light of the H1N1 crisis. Of course, we're well beyond the second wave of that crisis, and there's certainly some crisis around the H1N1 crisis, but it isn't the Ambulance Service. Nobody buys that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's been cited earlier, but I'm going to cite it again. It's a memo — VANOC Medical Services. I don't believe that people are engaged in a conspiracy theory when they believe that Bill 21 is just about trying to bring some artificial peace for the Olympics, but this memo certainly affirms that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"VANOC Medical Services requires definitive confirmation by October 1, 2009 that all required ambulance services will be provided as planned. These services include the ability to engage the VPCs and the BCAS members in full venue planning as soon as possible. This confirmation must also include a guarantee that no services during the games will be disrupted or reduced from what has been planned."
So the tail of VANOC wagged, and the minister responded by suggesting this was due to H1N1. Well, the memo suggests otherwise. The collateral damage is the paramedics and the Ambulance Service personnel that we rely on as a critical lifeline in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I went to a rally in Campbell River a couple months ago now, at Big Rock. It was put on by the paramedics, and I listened to them. I heard their stories. There were no Liberals present, I would comment. But I know what they do, and what's more, the public knows what they do. I was there for 2½ hours, and everyone who was showing support for those paramedics did so by honking their horn. Just about every car that went by, the thousands that went by, were showing their support. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The public has the greatest of respect for our paramedics and our ambulance service in British Columbia. The Liberal government does not. They treat them with disdain. To force through this legislation during a week when the vote is occurring on an agreement which could go either way is unbelievable. It is an act of bullying, and it is unbecoming to any minister of the Crown or any government in Canada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On the east side of Vancouver Island — Coombs, Errington, north Qualicum Beach, Bowser, Dashwood, Qualicum and Parksville — there is no hospital. There have been organizations.... Local governments in the area have been fighting to get some basic public facility that will provide emergency care, some diagnostic care and primary health care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There are three hospitals that are within reach. They're all about 40 minutes away. West Coast General in Port Alberni — Highway 4 is sometimes challenging; it's not always the best bet. Going north to Comox hospital — again, probably 40 minutes, and again, sometimes there are highway problems, weather problems. Nanaimo — similar time. A long time when you need urgent care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So community groups — I've been working with them — have been trying to get basic primary care in an area that has the highest percentage of population of seniors in the country. It makes good sense. It certainly does. VIHA and the government's reaction to that has been: "We have a great ambulance service. We can rely on our paramedics." While they're saying that, they're undermining everything the paramedics do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1740]
My colleagues have mentioned that some people believe it might be just a push by this government to force a situation so that this service will end up being privatized. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You erode the service enough, underfund the service enough, disrespect the people that work in the service enough, bring in bills like Bill 21 that undermine the basic rights of collective bargaining…. You do that, and you're eroding what used to be, arguably, the best service in the world of its kind — in British Columbia, the B.C. Ambulance Service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That seems to be, certainly, the pattern of this government from the moment it took office. We've seen a pattern from the early days of the Liberal government. They froze the budget for the first four years, and that was the beginning of this government's disrespect for a service that has never ceased to be a vital link, a vital lifeline for the people of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Because they are designated an essential service, they've been on strike but they continued to work. They haven't let anyone down. They are doing their vital job. This government is abusing that trust that the paramedics and ambulance workers have displayed and lived by as part of their job, as part of their lives in the province of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It seems that we are the only members in this House — the New Democrats, the official opposition — that are standing up for the paramedics and ambulance staff in the province of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Bill 21. I hate it, but it's worthy of debate because we are in this House, and it is a bill before all members. There are 85 of us. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know the response from every person in my constituency about protecting our ambulance service, our paramedics, and providing them with fair treatment. Every Liberal member knows that too. They've seen the signs. They know the local support. They've seen petitions. They've got letters. And they're not doing their job. They are not standing up for what is right. They're not standing up to protect our ambulance service, our paramedics or the public that relies on them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is an integral part of our health care system. When you cut services to the hospitals, like I've mentioned, when you shut out obstetrics in Tofino or a psych ward in West Coast General in Port Alberni or refuse to provide primary health care, emergency health care, urgency health care in Oceanside, Parksville-Qualicum area, you've increased the needs for the public of our ambulance service and our paramedics. You've put more of an onus, more of a burden on those services while you're undermining those services as government, and that doesn't add up. It doesn't make any sense. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As a part-time employee, if you're on a pager at 2 bucks an hour, you don't get any benefits. You've had to pay for all of your training out of your own pocket, on your own dime. You're not even eligible for benefits for six years, the time it takes to get a master's degree at university. Those people that work in our ambulance services as paramedics deserve a fair and honourable collective agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1745]
So why is this government ramming through Bill 21 now? Why are they forcing an issue while a vote is occurring? It is an affront to the people of British Columbia, it is an affront to everyone in the opposition, and it should be an affront to every Liberal member. Except for the odd heckle, we've seen no support for our paramedics, for our ambulance service from the Liberal side of the House. This bill makes a mockery out of a fair collective bargaining process. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The designation of essential services puts workers in an awkward position. They can't formally remove themselves from the workplace, as other workers can do, to push for their collective rights. They maintain the services, maybe wear a T-shirt or put a banner on the ambulance to say that they're upset with the fact that they're not being treated fairly. Even then, I think they've been threatened with legal action and such. But they are providing the essential service. They can do nothing less, nor would they. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For the government to force an agreement at this point, when they haven't even voted on the existing agreement this week, is unbelievable. For the minister to make a statement that this will solve anything, that this will bring peace and stability, is ridiculous. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We're coming into public sector bargaining following the Olympics, and everyone is watching this one. This act of thuggery, of bullying — which is what Bill 21 is — is a warning to all workers in the province that this government has learned nothing since it lost the court challenge on Bill 29, where they defiled the rights guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government is marching along and the Premier is marching along as though there are no workers' rights. That is the message they're sending to workers in this province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Less than 1 percent of the entire health care budget towards our paramedics and ambulance service in British Columbia. A work action — as much of a strike as they can deliver to stand up for their rights — and they're still delivering excellent service to the province and the people of British Columbia, and they get hit with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, I don't know how many of the votes on the proposed agreement are in the mail already, but you can be sure that with this imposition of Bill 21, the government is forcing a negative vote. If anyone who is willing to stand up for their basic rights was witnessing what this government's doing by forcing closure while the vote is occurring, any one of us, any person with backbone, would be fighting that. They would vote…. This government, this minister, is forcing a no vote. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know there are quite a few rural members not just on this side of the House but on the government side of the House. They know the issues. They know the good work that their paramedics and ambulance service do. I mean this with no disrespect to their urban counterparts, but I'm speaking as an MLA from Alberni–Pacific Rim. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have a large and challenging riding, as many of the rural ridings are in this province. Because of the cuts I've talked about to basic health services — refusal to provide basic health services — and because of the moves by health authorities, the Vancouver Island Health Authority, to try to centralize services…. It forces more and more people to utilize the ambulance service and paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1750]
If you have to travel 40 minutes, and you're having a heart attack or a stroke…. If you're living in, say, Qualicum Beach or Coombs or Errington, and you've got to travel 40 minutes, the paramedics, the Ambulance Service is what's going to save you. It is the only thing in this health system in this province that is going to save you. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They talk about that critical time at the beginning of trauma, of an emergency situation. The early minutes make all the difference between survival and dying. As we move, as the health authorities under the direction of the minister move in a direction of centralizing services…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Another broken promise is health care when you need it, where you need it. The reality is that health care for many people in British Columbia…. The health care where you need it and when you need it is in an ambulance. It's taken care of by paramedics that are being bullied by this minister and this government. That's their sad reality of what we're dealing with, with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I noticed some of the other cuts that we're seeing in the province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
S. Fraser: I'd love to continue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: I'd like to remind members to use parliamentary language when discussing the bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
B. Simpson: I rise today, of course, to speak against this bill for a variety of reasons which I will point out. But I do want to, first and foremost, offer our respect and our gratitude to the paramedics of British Columbia, those who are volunteers, those who are full-time, our air-ambulance people, all of those folks who, day in and day out, provide this essential service to the people of British Columbia. I don't want that to be lost in what we're saying. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On this side of the House we're talking about the government ramrodding a collective agreement down the throats of the paramedics, but I do believe and the evidence shows on the record that both sides of the House respect the work that the paramedics do. However, respect only goes so far, and the difference between ourselves and the government is that the government has, within its ability, a wide array of vehicles and options to actually show that respect in practical action. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It goes far beyond the steps that the government's taking in this bill. It goes to the very things that we as an opposition have been raising since 2006 and, prior to that, when the two members of the opposition were here raising these issues. But we have the public record of raising the concerns of paramedics and ambulance attendants in question period, in motion debate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is not a new issue. It is, I believe, on the part of the government, deliberate government policy to say: "We respect you, but we want a different kind of ambulance service in the province of British Columbia. So we're going to slowly undermine, we're going to slowly take away some of the benefits. We're going to slowly try and transition this ambulance service into something else." The government has not been clear for the Ambulance Service about their intents. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to take a look at what the minister has said in introducing this bill. I want to take a look at the bill itself, and I want to speak about the paramedics in my area. Before I start all of that, I want to recognize a voice that we are missing in the House, and that's my partner in crime from the last session, former MLA for Cariboo South, and that's Charlie Wyse. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know and can imagine if Charlie was in the House during this debate, he'd be apoplectic as only Charlie can about his passion for this issue, and he has stood his ground. He has educated us both in our rural caucus and in our general caucus about how important these issues are. He has held the torch for rural ambulance service and rural remote, and of course, he has some tragic examples of the government underservicing and under-resourcing the Ambulance Service in his community. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's unfortunate, as many members on this side of the House have pointed out, that our counterparts on the other side are not standing on this issue, because some of them definitely should. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1755]
Some of them made promises during the election that they were going to stand for paramedics. They were going to stand for their issues. Some of them wore the On Strike buttons as a badge of pride. Some of them answered the questions that were put to them in election debates and all-candidates debates about the paramedics and the Ambulance Service and said they would show their respect by coming into this House and being their voice. They are not being their voice, and quite frankly, that's shameful. It is shameful, and it is unacceptable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At least they could stand and show respect for the paramedics and stand and say whether or not they agree with the minister's statement as to why this has to be done now. And they will not. In particular, the person and the MLA who replaced former MLA Wyse made a promise during the election campaign to do that very thing. So I would like to hear her voice in this House. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: I would urge a bit of caution, Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
B. Simpson: So to the point of the bill. The explanatory note in the bill is quite interesting, actually. It states: "This bill settles the labour dispute between the Emergency and Health Services Commission and its ambulance paramedics and dispatchers." It settles the labour dispute. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think, quite frankly, that's a poor choice of words, because this does not settle the dispute in any way or shape. What it does is it exacerbates the situation that we have with our paramedics, because what it actually does is it forces a collective agreement. It undermines the collective bargaining process during the time when the vote is actually going on. It doesn't even wait for the outcome of the vote. It simply imposes a collective agreement. That's not settling a dispute. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It does not make the issues of the paramedics go away. It does not make the issues about the B.C. Ambulance Service go away. It simply, for a very short period of time, imposes some wage benefits to the paramedics, and there are some promises that the minister makes about some other things that they've been asking for. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister actually doesn't even say settle the dispute. It says it ends the strike. I would suggest that it might only be postponing the strike — and postpones it until after the Olympics. That's really what's going on here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
One of the things I think we all as politicians need to be very careful of, considering how we rank in popularity contests next to other avocations and vocations, is what we do in this House with respect to the public trust. I think that the public has an appetite for us all to be more forthright about what we're doing and what we're saying and why we're saying it than we often give them credit for. That's why I want to take a look at what the minister has to say about why they are now imposing this collective agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
First off, the minister goes on and says that he values the work and services of the ambulance paramedics. I don't dispute that for one second. However, he states — and this is in his introduction of the bill: "…we are concerned that the longer this dispute drags on, the higher the risk for patients…." He's concerned about the implications of the H1N1 pandemic. He's concerned about the implications of the busy holiday season. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Later on when he actually brings the bill into the House and starts second reading, the minister makes the comment: "Ultimately, this legislation is about protecting patients and ensuring the safety of the citizens of British Columbia." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I find that interesting — that H1N1, the safety of the citizens of British Columbia, the holiday season, etc., are all the reasons given for introducing the bill when the minister makes the following statement in his second reading statement in this House: "Fortunately, to date there have been no adverse patient outcomes directly attributable to the dispute." No adverse patient outcomes directly attributable to the dispute. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So if that's the case…. Because as everybody should know, these paramedics operate under the essential services legislation. They still offer all of the services. In fact, their mandate did offer overtime. The minister admits that there have been no adverse patient outcomes directly attributable to the dispute but makes excuses that he's concerned about the safety of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think that that, quite frankly, is not being straightforward with the reasons why the bill is being introduced. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1800]
If it's H1N1, then it causes me to wonder why the Minister of Health is not paying attention to what the representatives of the paramedics are saying about the lack of equipment in our ambulances for our ambulance attendants to protect themselves against the H1N1 virus and for them to have the resources they need to deal with the implications of this potential pandemic in British Columbia. They haven't addressed that issue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If H1N1 is the issue, where is the plan for the Ambulance Service that comes with additional resources, additional equipment, as has been asked for by the paramedic members' representatives? It hasn't happened. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Quite frankly, it's not H1N1. It's not concern for the health and safety of the people of British Columbia. If they were concerned about that, the government would have appointed an arbitrator. The government would have addressed the framework issues that the paramedics have raised around retention, around recruitment, around remuneration, around the future of the Ambulance Service, and around the rural-remote situation we have and the disparity of service in those areas. If they were truly concerned about the health and safety of British Columbians, those issues would have been addressed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If they truly respected the paramedics, they would have at least, even in this bill, given them the signing bonus that was given to all of the other public sector workers. That would have been a sign of respect — that they get that they're imposing something, but "We also want you to be standing with your brothers and sisters in the public sector who got that signing bonus." That's not in the bill, and that's not an oops. It's not an oversight. It's deliberate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If the government was serious about the threats that are articulated by the minister as to why they have to impose a collective agreement, then they would have addressed the issues as I have suggested — H1N1 resources. They would have shown respect, they would have agreed to the framework agreement, and they would have a retention and recruitment strategy in play. They would have already appointed an industrial inquiry, not talk about: "I'm going to go talk to the Minister of Labour and ask him to put in place such an inquiry." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
All those things would have been in play. But they haven't done that, so it really calls into question the minister's rationale for introducing this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As my colleagues on this side have pointed out, there's really one reason why the bill has been introduced as it is, when it is and the way it is. That's because they've been warned by VANOC that they'll cancel the games. That's the real reason. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's not respectful of the people of British Columbia to suggest otherwise. It's not respectful of the paramedics to suggest otherwise. It would have been much more respectful to say: "Look, we've got a real problem. The problem is that we've got a big show coming in February. We need to be sure that we can actually offer the highest level of ambulance and paramedic service. We tried to go elsewhere to get it. We couldn't get it. We tried to figure out ways around this. We couldn't do it. So we're introducing this bill, and it's explicitly because of the Olympics. It will only last until March 31, and then we're back to square one." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister actually had the option of standing in this House and saying that in his introduction to the bill. I think that for the paramedics and the AMBULANCE SERVICE, that would have maybe been something they would have found easier to swallow. They all believe, quite fundamentally, that's what is going on. When they're told it's H1N1 and when they're told it's the safety of the public, it's another insult to injury for a group of people who already feel they're being disrespected by this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's unfortunate that the introduction of this bill, in settling a labour dispute and ending a strike, doesn't simply say that we need to put this strike in abeyance in order to guarantee VANOC what it needs guaranteed in order to make sure that we have the ambulance and paramedic service available to host the Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, it's interesting that this is a bill that undermines the collective bargaining process. I think that governments of all stripes, and historically in this province and around Canada and North America, have used the ability to bypass collective agreements and impose agreements. However, it should be a piece of legislation of absolute last resort. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The people of British Columbia need to pay attention when the government does these things, because as I've said many times in this House, democracy is a very fragile form of governance. It actually requires an awake citizenry that's paying attention to what the government is doing on a number of fronts. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1805]
If we actually look at some of the things we have raised in question period recently around freedom of speech, as simple as the freedom of speech and the freedom to gather without having the RCMP go and investigate you and your family and everybody else, that's a right that we better be careful we're not giving up. We better be careful that we don't give up collective bargaining rights. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Much of the benefits, the pensions, the working conditions that people enjoy in this province in the large corporate sectors and even in some of the small and medium-sized businesses are a result of collective bargaining that was fought for, which people were beat over the head for fighting for and people were sent to jail for fighting for. It's a democratic right in our society to have the right to bargain in good faith, and it's a democratic process. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
A government that, when a vote is occurring…. It's not just that they're going to impose a collective agreement but that they will impose it when an actual democratic exercise is underway. That's a government that is abusing its power. The citizens of British Columbia need to pay attention to that, because in their workplaces collective bargaining is what gets them their ability to work in a safe environment. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We all know that slowly but surely, under the guise of competitiveness, under the guise that we have to be competitive on the world stage, we are allowing the whittling away of all the benefits that people have fought so long and hard for, collective bargaining rights that people fought so long and hard for. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When a government does this, it better be a last resort. I would argue that in this case it is not a last resort. It is an abuse of power. It is forced, and it's forced for reasons other than what the minister articulates in his introduction of the bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The paramedics raised their concerns — not just the wage concerns they have but all of their concerns about the situation with ambulance service in British Columbia — during the election. I want to give them credit for doing that and for persisting in maintaining that campaign. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I drive around the province. I have the luxury, as part of this job — as many of the members here do — to drive around this wonderful province, and you still see the paramedic signs all over the place. You see that there are people in this province who still care enough about the paramedics to make sure those signs are on our highways, at our businesses and in our downtowns. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
During the election campaign in Cariboo North, the paramedics did a very, very good job of holding all of the candidates to account on this issue, of extracting from us promises that we would bring their voice into the Legislature. They held leaflet campaigns, and they were respectful. They made sure that they obeyed the laws, and they made sure they got to as many people as they could. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They came to all of the all-candidates meetings and, of course, put us under pressure that everybody who was sitting at the all-candidates table had their pins on. But they also asked respectful questions about what it was they wanted. All they wanted was the assignment of binding arbitration. It was a simple ask, and of course our side of the House agreed at that point. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Then, of course, they visited locations where the Premier visited. We know the shameful incident that occurred during the election when a paramedic was flipped a loonie, and the disrespect that showed and how that went through the whole community of paramedics and people who were concerned about them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What is the alternative? Again, the other side of the House claims that we always just stand up here and rail, that we don't offer alternatives. It strikes me that in this case the alternatives are quite self-evident, quite straightforward and would actually be a better reflection of the minister's statement of respect for the Ambulance Service. They're quite clear. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
First, the appointment of an independent arbitrator. Quite frankly, we on this side don't understand why that hasn't gone on. There's a situation that occurs here where the Ambulance Service reports to an employer that isn't really the government, but the government imposes on that employer the resources and budget, etc., so the government actually can step in and play a role and appoint that independent arbitrator. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They've asked for an industrial inquiry. As I said, in the minister's opening comments the minister indicates that he's going to ask the Labour Minister to appoint such an industrial inquiry. My preference would be that this government actually announce the appointment of such an industrial inquiry. Quite frankly, we have a government that often uses words as a substitute for action, and we have a government that has jaundiced the public about promises they've made. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1810]
We have, of course, as opposition, a list of all the broken promises that we go out on every day, and I hope that this is not one of them. I hope that it does turn into an actual industrial inquiry. But the reality is that as a signal to the paramedics, that industrial inquiry should be, could be and must be appointed right away. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Second, the government really needs to take a look — and the minister has indicated that he will take a look as well — at the rural situation. It will likely be part of the review, the industrial inquiry, and it also needs to be part of what the government does through the Health Minister and through the Labour Minister. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As my colleague former MLA Wyse has pointed out many, many times, we have a growing disparity in British Columbia between rural and rural-remote ambulance service and the urban service. Our response times are simply not adequate. How we remunerate — the $2 wage — and all of the things that members in this House have pointed out over and over again simply chase people away. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What often happens to us is if we can get somebody who is willing to pay to have all of their training and education done, willing to put in the time at $2 on call and $10 in-house and so on, then they end up going to the urban centres. We lose that ability to deliver ambulance service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The report that we've got, which people have referenced, about response times is that often in a lot of our areas we do not meet the targeted response time of nine minutes ever. It's zero when you look at the targeting for that response. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What's really going on here — and an independent industrial inquiry may actually explore these issues — is that we've long believed that the government either deliberately or by omission failed to take into account the ambulance service when it came up with its grand scheme for health care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The agenda for health care has been crystal-clear: centralize, downsize, privatize. That's the agenda for health care. Those of us who live outside the Lower Mainland have seen that writ large. We have regional hospitals instead of local hospitals. We now have even more the regionalization of things like addiction services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We had a question in question period today about losing public health nurses, and the minister intimated that that's okay. They can go to Prince George. There's a bit of a distance between Smithers and Prince George to go get public health services. But it's in keeping with this government's approach to health care that they've regionalized. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They have also taken away lots of the other services that we need in our communities. One would think that a government that actually thought that through would realize that the arterial network needed to support that was going to be a more robust ambulance service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If you were going to remove and extract health care resources from rural British Columbia, you had to then bring up the capacity of our paramedics and the ambulance service to be able to transport people around the province, to deliver immediate services both in critical care and in ambulatory care, to actually offset the regionalization and the centralization on the health care side. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government didn't do that. Instead what they did was continue to chip away at the ambulance service to undermine it. It leaves us with the conclusion that the only thing that's operating here is that the government wants to go back to the good old, bad old days of a private ambulance service of some kind. That's really what the agenda is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Again, all this bill does is get them over the hump of the Olympics to March 31, but we're back to square one on March 31, 2010, post-Olympics. I'll be very surprised if there are any positive moves on the part of the government to actually address the real issues of the ambulance service independent of the wage or remuneration which, if it can't be done by collective agreement, needs to go through binding arbitration. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think the government's agenda is quite clear. Just as their agenda for health care is privatization, I believe their agenda for paramedics and ambulance service is privatization as well. I think what they're doing by their actions is undermining that service, demoralizing that service, getting more and more people to walk away from that service so that it cannot deliver what all of the good folks who work in that service want to deliver. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As a consequence, the government has an excuse to then turn around and say: "We need an alternate model, and that alternate model looks like this." A big chunk of that alternate model is private service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Anybody who knows the history of ambulance service in the province of British Columbia knows that's the way it used to be. It didn't work. We had all kinds of delivery services for ambulance. We had all kinds of user fees and upfront payments and sporadic service around the province. It's back to the bad old days, if that's the direction the government is intending to go. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The ambulance service was specifically and explicitly put in place in order to address those concerns. Yet I believe the government's agenda is to take us back there again. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If the minister is serious — and again, we would all like to take him at his word, but we should be forgiven for being jaundiced about this government's words —then I think that the way forward is actually clear. Pull this bill off the table. Do not continue with it. Sit down with the union in good faith. Do the work that needs to be done on the framework around ambulance service. Either allow the collective bargaining process to proceed, or appoint an independent arbitrator to get through this dispute. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With respect to the best way to provide the best paramedic care to the people of British Columbia…. It's to show full respect to our paramedics, to show full respect in the way that we equip them, to get their education and training, and we give them the resources to do that. It's to show them respect through a collective agreement that actually gives them fair wages, gives them the kind of signing bonuses that other public sector unions have enjoyed and gives them the ability to get this monkey — the collective agreement — off their back. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's the way you make sure that when an individual shows up at an incident, they are fully focused, that they are free and unencumbered to do what they want to do, what they're trained to do and what they're in the ambulance service to do. That's to deliver the highest level of care to the people of British Columbia in their time of need. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Noting the time, adjourn debate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Not yet? Okay. I wasn't sure if I was getting a signal or not — on timing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Continue. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
B. Simpson: Okay. As I said, I thought I was getting the hook there, but the members on the other side say I'll know when I've gotten the hook. I won't have to guess about it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I had the opportunity to meet with our ambulance attendants and paramedics. I have a brother-in-law who is with the air ambulance. I think one of the things that strikes me about all of these folks is that they absolutely love the work they do. They love the knowledge that they get. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Many of them take great pride in the fact that from a trauma care perspective, they have — because of their experience, because of their work — a lot to offer to the health care service in terms of immediate ability to stabilize patients — to give them the level of care they need to make sure that when they do get into our hospital system, the work of the health care professionals in the hospital system is able to make sure we get a speedy recovery because the patients have been stabilized. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]
I know my brother-in-law tells me that when he flies into many remote communities, the doctors are very happy to see them show up just because of the level of care that advanced life-support paramedics bring into small communities. He tells stories of doctors that breathe a big sigh of relief. It's kind of: "Oh, thank God you're here. Here's the patient. Stabilize them and prepare them to be flown to a higher level of care." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Both sides of the House, as I opened, have full respect for our paramedics. Our preference would be that that respect is shown in a different way than this bill. We do not believe this bill is either necessary or needed. We believe this bill is a result of the Olympics, not the reasons that the minister put forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
B. Simpson moved adjournment of debate.
Motion approved.
[1820]
Speaker's Statement
rules for public bills
in the hands of private members
Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, I've had the opportunity to review Bill M203, First Nations Heritage Protection and Conservation Act, 2009, which was introduced in the House by the member for Esquimalt–Royal Roads. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The bill would require expenditure of public funds, contrary to Standing Order 67, and therefore is out of order in the hands of a private member and will not proceed to second reading. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported resolution, was granted leave to sit again.
Hon. I. Chong moved adjournment of the House.
Motion approved.
Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 tomorrow afternoon. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The House adjourned at 6:21 p.m.
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