2009
Legislative Session: First Session, 39th Parliament
HOUSE BLUES
This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.
(HANSARD)
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2009
The House met at 10:03 a.m.
[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]
Prayers.
Orders of the Day
Hon. M. de Jong: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. In Committee A, I call Committee of Supply — for the information of members, the estimates of the Ministry of Community and Rural Development. In this chamber, second reading of Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Second Reading of Bills
Bill 21 — Ambulance Services
Collective Agreement Act
Hon. K. Falcon: I move second reading of Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This legislation will end the strike by CUPE 873, the union representing B.C.'s 3,500 ambulance paramedics and dispatchers, bringing a legislative end to this dispute. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[C. Trevena in the chair.]
The decision to introduce this legislation was a difficult one and certainly not one we came to lightly. We value the work and services provided by B.C.'s paramedics, but our priority is to ensure the safety of British Columbians and to make certain that patients get the care they need in the event of a medical emergency. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In the Lower Mainland the number of ambulances out of service each month has jumped to 150 compared to just 12 before the strike began, and right now our entire health system is operating at full capacity to manage the impact of the H1N1 pandemic. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1005]
While the system is coping as best it can, we know that pressure is mounting in both our emergency departments and critical care areas right across the province. Our health authorities are under additional stress from growing absenteeism from influenza-like illnesses, which are on the rise. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Fortunately, to date there have been no adverse patient outcomes directly attributable to the dispute so far, but every day the strike continues, it increases the risk to patients. We've had a number of near misses, and we cannot afford to go another day with our ambulance service operating at less than its full potential. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
B.C.'s paramedics began their job action on April 1, earlier this year, and for the past seven months the two parties have been working to come to a mutually satisfactory settlement. We are doing this in the midst of one of the toughest economic times we've seen in at least a generation. Despite this, we have tried to reach a fair agreement that addresses paramedics' concerns while recognizing the economic challenges that we face in government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's important to recognize that expenditures on paramedic wages have risen 83 percent, from $78 million in the year 2000 to $144 million in the 2008-2009 fiscal year. The most recent offer made by the B.C. Ambulance Service was very generous, given B.C.'s current economic environment, and was in keeping with what other public sector workers will receive in 2009-10. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
While we must recognize that the union and B.C. Ambulance management agreed to a number of key items, unfortunately, the offer was not fully accepted by the union. We simply cannot wait for the union to confirm that its membership has followed their direction to reject the latest offer. Waiting does not move us any further forward and, in fact, only demonstrates how broken the current labour relations structure really is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The settlement we've put forward in the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act reflects the key elements of the final offer made to the union by the B.C. Ambulance Service during the last round of talks in September. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is a one-year deal, retroactive to April 1, 2009, and it includes a competitive compensation increase of 3 percent in wages this year, in line with other public sector workers. This is an increase that was accepted by the union as recently as September. The September offer also included a further 1.2 percent increase, contingent on both sides finding efficiencies within the collective agreement in which to fund the additional 1.2 percent. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The B.C. Ambulance Service is still willing to work collaboratively with the union to achieve the 1.2 percent, if their position changes. In addition, we will be calling on the Minister of Labour to appoint an industrial inquiry commissioner as soon as possible to identify options for repairing the broken labour relations structure between the B.C. Ambulance Service and CUPE 873 before the next round of bargaining in the new year. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Approximately one-third of all the ambulance stations in B.C. are designated as remote. I mention that because the issues that confront rural paramedics, in particular, are unique, but they are important. We very much hope to build on the work we're already doing to help address the challenge of recruitment and retention in these rural and remote stations. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It does bear repeating — which I want the rural paramedics, in particular, to know — that we recognize and agree with many of those rural paramedics who say that the current structure doesn't work for them. I am personally committed to making sure that we address those concerns, to the benefit of rural paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, as mentioned earlier, the decision to implement this legislation was not one we made lightly, but it became clear after this length of time, seven months, that we had simply reached an impasse and that there was no realistic possibility of a negotiated settlement between the B.C. Ambulance Service and CUPE 873. Ultimately, this legislation is about protecting patients and ensuring the safety of the citizens of British Columbia. This legislation also reflects our concern that the longer this situation continues, the higher the risk for patients. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1010]
We are seeing increased numbers of British Columbians presenting with the H1N1 flu virus. In fact, B.C.'s rate of positive tests for H1N1 is already several times higher than the rest of Canada. Fortunately, most of the H1N1 cases continue to be mild to moderate in severity, but as the number of cases rises, as we anticipate they will in the weeks ahead, we are going to see the numbers of people seriously injured also climb. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Yes, we have strategies in place to ensure that the health system is ready. That's why we have ensured that we've got enough vaccine for any British Columbian who ultimately wants or needs it. It's why we are allowing doctors to provide consultations over the phone with patients who suspect they might have the H1N1, on an unlimited basis and be compensated for that. It's why British Columbians are aware that they can call the 811 line day or night if they have any questions or concerns about the flu or symptoms that they are feeling. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These measures are not complete if our ambulance service remains on strike. We need to be certain that this service is operating at peak effectiveness during times of challenge, and we need to ensure that the ambulance service will be there if patients are in distress or if we require critical transfers to hospital ICU beds to access ventilators. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We have seen, during this dispute, that patients have been put at greater risk because paramedics are not as available to work as compared to what the situation was prior to the strike. We need British Columbians to be confident that when they call an ambulance, whether it is in the middle of the day or the middle of the night, one will be on their doorstep as soon as possible and that a labour disruption is not going to get in the way of ensuring that they get the kind of medical care they need when they need it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We are moving into a very busy holiday season, which means more British Columbians will be out on B.C.'s roads and highways, visiting family, taking trips and going to holiday events. We all hope for a safe holiday season, but this is one of the busier times of the year and, for many people, a stressful time. We need to be prepared for increased injuries and illness as the holidays approach. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to conclude my remarks by again emphasizing, as I did at the beginning of my speech, the important role –– indeed, the vital role — that paramedics play as first responders when a medical emergency strikes. We appreciate the work that paramedics do every day to ensure the health and well-being of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This legislation provides paramedics with what we believe to be a fair package, given the current economic climate, and ensures that this vital service will be there when British Columbians need it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know that all members of this House recognize that this is a difficult thing to do. But I also know that all members of this House understand and are concerned with the fact that we have a health system right now that is being taxed as we deliver with the challenge of the H1N1 pandemic. All of us, every health care professional today, is doing everything they can to try and deal with this situation in a professional manner in the best interests of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is no different on the paramedical side. We need to have all medical professionals working together as we deal with the challenges of H1N1. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With that, Madam Speaker, I move second reading. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
R. Chouhan: The only way this Bill 21 and the action of this government can be described is appalling. Just to put it mildly, it's shocking to see that this government, rather than admitting its failure to engage itself in free collective bargaining, has decided to use a very heavy-handed approach. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What we saw yesterday in this House, by the introduction of Bill 21, is the government again confirming its attitude, its lack of understanding and its total, total disregard for workers' rights in British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1015]
We have seen the same movie played here in this House when Bill 29 was introduced early in their first mandate in 2002. Rather than learning a lesson from Bill 29, the government has chosen to continue on the same destructive path that they have been following for the last many years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The Minister of Health this morning has been standing in the House talking about that the main reason to introduce Bill 21 is the H1N1 pandemic. That's complete nonsense. H1N1 is nothing new. That has been going on for months and weeks. This dispute has been going on for months. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Where were they four years ago when this union and the paramedics asked for a meaningful engagement in labour relations, asked for the appointment of an independent arbitrator to deal with these issues that the minister is talking of today? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the paramedics went on strike in April, that issue of arbitration was there. It was raised not only by paramedics; it was also raised during the last election. But the government chose not to act upon that request. They were sitting and waiting and hoping that it would just go away. If they had acted upon the union's request months ago, this dispute would have been resolved long, long ago. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now for the minister to stand here and blame the paramedics…. It's shameful what we heard today, saying that patients have been put at risk because the paramedics were not available. What nonsense. Paramedics are always available. We have an essential services order. All this bill does, basically…. It's practically just adding maybe 16 more paramedics to the total number of paramedics that are available under the order. So it is not going to be helping anybody more than the help that is already available. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For the minister to use that cover, to use that excuse is just absolute nonsense. They should be ashamed for blaming the paramedics that they are not available. Paramedics in British Columbia are the most professional people. They have done their utmost. They're working longer hours. They're tired. There are no breaks. But still they are there to help anybody who needs help when they need help. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now let's talk about what the real issue behind this legislation is. During the hearings at the labour relations board, during the cross-examinations of some of the documents, what we found out…. There was a memorandum sent by Dr. Mike Wilkinson, who's the director of medical services for VANOC, to Stephen Brown, Lee Doney and other government officials. That memorandum was…. In the hearing, the cross-examination, we found out, and I read in part: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"VANOC Medical Services…requires definitive confirmation by October 1, 2009, that all required ambulance services will be provided as planned. These services include the ability to engage the VPCs and BCAS members in full venue planning as soon as possible. This confirmation must also include a guarantee that no services during the games will be disrupted or reduced from what has been planned."
[1020]
It continues. It says: [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
"If we are unable to obtain the guarantee, through either settlement of the strike or legislated 'détente' for the games, then VANOC will be required to initiate alternative contingency plans to avoid cancellation of the games."
That's the real issue. H1N1 is just a cover; it's an excuse. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The reality is that VANOC is dictating what should be done. It's VANOC that's running this province, it seems. This minister and this government should be ashamed of what they have done yesterday through Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's important that British Columbians understand that when this minister stands up and other members of the government stand up and talk about, "We are trying to protect the members of the public, British Columbians, from H1N1," it's absolute crap. It's nonsense. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Member, please withdraw that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
R. Chouhan: I withdraw that. Sorry, Madam Speaker. It's absolute nonsense what the government is trying to do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The reality is now, as we have seen through this memo that we have discovered, that it's the Olympics. It's VANOC. They are the one who asked the government, and the government here said: "You want us to jump? Tell us how high." It's that attitude. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's ruining the collective bargaining process that we have had in this province for so long. Now the paramedics are in the process of completing their ratification vote, which is scheduled to be completed on November 5. Today is — what? — November 3, so two more days. Could they not wait for the outcome of that? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For the minister to stand up and say: "Oh, we cannot wait. That's not an option." The members of the union would have accepted it. Who knows? On November 5, when the vote is completed, they would be counting it, and the results would have been announced to everybody. But for the minister to stand up and introduce this bill and say that that was not an option — that is absolutely embarrassing. They should be ashamed of what they have done. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
First, the paramedics know their right to strike was taken away through the essential services order — basically virtually eliminated. And now, through Bill 21, we have seen an end to free collective bargaining for the members of this union. The government should stand up and apologize for what they have done. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They should stand up and admit that they have failed in negotiating a collective agreement. They have failed in appointing an arbitrator when the union asked it to be appointed months ago. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This heavy-handed approach that we have seen is not going to be helpful to anybody. Come next year, April 1, all the public sector unions are up in their negotiations. Their collective agreements are expiring, and they're up for renewal. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
With this, the message the minister is sending through Bill 21 is that they don't care. They're inflaming the labour relations instead of repairing, as the minister was trying to claim yesterday. When you appoint an industrial inquiry commissioner, as suggested in Bill 21, there's nothing left to be repaired. The damage, the severe damage, has already been done. The IIC, whoever that person may be, would go and meet with the union and expect that they would cooperate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The first and basic fundamental principle of free collective bargaining is respect and trust. This government doesn't care. They have already lost that respect and trust, and now they expect that somebody will go and have a magic wand and fix everything. It's not going to work like that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1025]
It only works when both parties are sincere in dealing with each other, trying to find a fair and equitable solution. Bill 21 is neither fair nor equitable. The terms proposed under Bill 21 are somewhat similar to what already is on the table for ratification. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If the government had waited two more days, they probably would have found out that the process had worked. Now it's up for failure. What we have in front of us for the months and months ahead of us is that people — who are forced to work under Bill 21, rather than them going to work to do their job as they've always been doing — will always be thinking: "We are forced, and we are sent back to work by the Minister of Health and the B.C. Liberal government when we were already engaging in a meaningful process to conclude our negotiations." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What would they be thinking when they would be going to work and always…? On one hand, the union has done everything in their power to conclude the negotiations, but the government has totally neglected their plea to sit down and negotiate a free collective agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The independent arbitrator that they were asking for could have dealt with all the outstanding issues such as staff recruitment, training, retention, employee compensation, staff workload, occupational health and safety issues, rural and remote deployment. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That in itself is a big issue, the deployment and the needs of people of British Columbia in the rural areas. We don't have enough paramedics and ambulances available in those areas. Rather than admitting that and engaging itself to find resources to help those people, they are now saying: "Oh well, we are in power. We are the government. We can do this. Therefore we are going to introduce Bill 21 and do the whole thing, and everything else will resolve." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's not going to work like that. We have seen in the past that any action like this by the government has created more…. It has a negative impact on the labour relations. That's what we have seen in the past. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the union first met with the employer, the very first day, the union made sure that they established that they came to the bargaining table with full sincerity, were there to resolve issues and find meaningful solutions. But what they have seen at the bargaining table day after day, if there was any bargaining ever happening, was stalling. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They met with lack of respect. There was no trust. Now Bill 21 has confirmed that this government does not care about the services of those paramedics, which they have been providing for the last many, many years. Many of them have seniority of over 20 years. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1030]
They have been working hard, and we need them. We need to send them a message that we care, that we respect their work and that we trust them. They are the ones who go out and save lives. They are the ones who go out when somebody is injured. In crises, they are the first ones to go and help. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Rather than accepting that, rather than help finding a solution, rather than finding help for them, the government is now introducing Bill 21. It's an insult. As I mentioned earlier, when you inflame labour relations through legislation, it will take years and years to repair that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, I have in my lifetime negotiated literally hundreds and hundreds of collective agreements. I was a director of collective bargaining for the Hospital Employees Union before I got into politics in 2005. The main reason for me to join politics was Bill 29. When Bill 29 was introduced, thousands upon thousands of women, single mothers and women of colour lost their jobs. Many of them had seniority — 18, 19 years of seniority. Families were ruined. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Before the election in 2001 the opposition leader at that time, the current Premier, came and met with the Hospital Employees Union and said that they respected collective bargaining and that they would not touch any collective agreement. That interview which was done was reported, and it was published in the union's newspaper, called the Guardian. Lo and behold, shortly thereafter when the election was over, the opposition leader became the Premier, and Bill 29 was introduced. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The same attitude continues today. Bill 29 privatized those services in the hospitals provided by experienced, skilled workers. When that happened, it not only destroyed those jobs, it also destroyed the care level provided to the seniors, the patients in the hospitals or in the long-term care facilities. When we're talking about protecting British Columbians' health, we have to make sure that we have workers who are skilled, who are experienced, and that we respect them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Like Bill 29, Bill 21 has done the total opposite. The government is saying, "Forget it. Forget about all the skilled workers and all that. We know how to deal with it. We are going to introduce the legislation, and we're going to just put an end to everything," as under Bill 29. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The real reason for that at that time was not to save money. As we have seen through the Supreme Court decision, money was not saved. It was just simply to reward the B.C. Liberals' supporters. You know, those multinational corporations like Aramark, Sodexho and Compass came and took those jobs in the hospitals and long-term care facilities. Where was the saving? If a saving was made, the government should have shown that information to the public, but they are still hiding. That information was never shared. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Similarly, now under Bill 21, forcing the employees, the workers, the paramedics, to accept this proposal that the government is talking about is not going to help anybody. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1035]
The proposal that was tabled on September 28 also included a bonus of $4,100 for full-time employees and a bonus of $2,600 for part-time employees. This government has taken that away. Are they trying to tell us that by taking that bonus away from 3,500 employees — the paramedics — they are going to save tons of money? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government has a record of wasting millions and millions of dollars on extravagant parties that they're organizing for the upcoming Olympics. As we have talked about in the past week and the past few days, they're spending, I think, millions of dollars — let's say, to be safe — just to please their supporters. They're buying 3,000 tickets to hand out to their rich friends, to their supporters, but they don't have a small amount of money for paramedics, for professionals who are there to save people's lives. It's shameful. It's shameful what this government has done. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, if the government is thinking that by introducing Bill 21 it would reduce the amount of response time that it takes.... Nothing is going to change. Nothing is going to change because the ambulance workers, the paramedics, are overworked. They don't have all the resources. They don't have all the equipment they need to respond quickly. So that situation is not going to change. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What will change is the relationship between the employer and employees. That relationship, that damaged relationship, is not going to help British Columbians for the months to come and when we get into bargaining as of March 1 next year. We will see, as I have seen in my lifetime, that when you don't have that respect and trust amongst parties, you suffer. Who suffers most in the hospital and the health care industry is the patients, the seniors, people who need help more than anybody else. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Will this government change its mind and withdraw this bill? I don't think so because their record shows that they don't care. They will continue on this destructive path. They will continue to damage the work done by these hard-working people. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, I have seen paramedics. When they go attend to somebody at a home or at the hospital or roadside when an accident occurs, I have seen these paramedics crying because they were unable to help at the time when they needed to. They wanted to save that life, but they couldn't do it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's the kind of care and compassion these people carry. Rather than saying, "Thank you very much for your work. Thank you very much for standing up for us. Thank you very much for coming out and taking care of my parents or my loved ones," we are saying: "Sorry, we don't care. We don't respect your work." That's shameful. It's just unacceptable the way they are treated by the B.C. Liberal government in B.C. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1040]
This dispute, when it started — I'm trying to find the information here, if I can…. At that time, the union laid out all these issues. They put them on the table step by step, asking for the kinds of resources they need to address those issues. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This whole dispute was dragged on and on and on. The Minister of Health, the B.C. Liberal government — they were sleeping. They were ignoring their plea. They were just not responding to what the workers were asking for. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
For months and months they sat there totally trying to wash their hands off. As a result, from what we have seen today, we have come to a point where workers had to take a strike vote, and they had to go on strike. But as many of the health care workers are subject to, they had to go through essential services hearings, and they were ordered to provide and to maintain a very high level of services. There were hardly any paramedics off the job. As I said, this bill probably would have sent back an additional 16 paramedics — not even that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What are they trying to do? They're trying to hide behind this excuse of H1N1. The government is not being truthful. They should stand up and admit that they're reacting to VANOC's demand that there should be no dispute, that there should be no lack of services — that when they need it, they should be there. As we have seen from Dr. Wilkinson's memorandum to this government, the reality is, as we have seen in the last many months, that the government is simply working around the needs and demands of VANOC, not around the needs of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It would be good. I think it would send a good message to British Columbians and to everybody if the Minister of Health stood up and said: "I'm sorry. The truth is that, yes, we are catering to VANOC's needs." It would send a really good message for the minister to stand up and say: "Sorry. We made a mistake." But no, this government has no shame. They don't care, and they'll continue on their destructive path. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Come next year, when we are starting our collective bargaining with thousands and thousands of other collective agreements, we will see the impact of Bill 21 on that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I again ask. I know the minister is not going to change his mind, but there are other members of the B.C. Liberal government. They should listen to the plea of these workers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
L. Krog: I'd love to believe that the minister and this government might have been moved by the words of the member for Burnaby-Edmonds, someone who — as I pointed out in this chamber a few days ago — has spoken on behalf of working people his whole life, someone who has enormous experience in the collective bargaining process, someone who understands what it is for workers to suffer indignities in the workplace. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1045]
I don't for a moment think this minister and this government are going to be moved. It has become increasingly clear throughout its mandate that the ideological divisions that exist in the province of British Columbia are going to continue to exist, because whenever the rights of labour versus the employer come into collision, this government will consistently side on behalf of the employer in the ideological belief that somehow unions are just this unnecessary cog, some brake on the pursuit of profit, some interference in the process by which most British Columbia employers and businesses operate. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The fact is that this bill is extremely short, but it is anything but sweet. As the member for Burnaby-Edmonds pointed out so ably, what is absolutely unprecedented about this legislation is that it was introduced four days short of the conclusion of a voting process that is underway. Now, in this province, I won't say we're used to it and I won't say we've become — how shall I say? — insensitive to it, but we are used to this government interfering in collective bargaining, interfering in contractual relations in a way that, frankly, makes the old Socreds look like the working person's friend. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Bill 29 — what happened to the Hospital Employees Union, what happened to their workers — went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada for this government to be told what most British Columbians already knew. That was: what it did was just wrong, plain wrong. It was anything but bargaining in good faith. It was anything but treating and showing respect for workers. It was anything but doing right, demonstrating trust and respect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Here we are today again — another bill introduced before the vote is even counted. Now, I've got to give this government some credit. It takes an amazing amount of gall to do that. The last time I checked the legislative calendar, we're here until the 26th of November. There is more than enough time just in the existing legislative schedule, let alone a special sitting which governments sometimes call if they're trying to deal with an outstanding crisis or labour issue. There is more than enough time for this government to have introduced this legislation, if it really thought it was necessary, during the balance of this session. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But instead, it's almost like they have to just rub the noses of the paramedics of British Columbia in this dispute. They just have to give them one more whack, to stick them one more time and make a mockery of the collective bargaining process, to insult them, to just drive home to them the complete lack of respect for what it is they do. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, it was just on Friday that my sainted mother, 93 years old, was attended by the paramedics in Qualicum Beach at the facility she lives in. She's off in Nanaimo hospital, got good care, getting good care, got good care from the paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There is not one of us in this chamber who hasn't had a family member or a friend or perhaps even one of us who has benefited from the incredible work that these people who work as paramedics do for all of us day in and day out in British Columbia, every hour of every day 24-7, 365 days of the year. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I live in an older neighbourhood, in the sense that a number of the people who live near us are seniors. I can't tell you how many times they've had to attend in my neighbourhood. You hear that ambulance and you worry about who it is, but you know that the people who are coming are skilled. They care. They've taken on an occupation that is really more of a calling in most respects. They've taken on a calling to care for people in crisis. They're there when you're injured. They're there when you're sick. They're there when you're in need, and not everyone can do that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1050]
Not everyone can deal with issues of blood and health. Not everyone is prepared in a situation of crisis to have the calm sense that you need in order to respond to that crisis. Not everyone has the courage to make the decisions that are necessary to determine what's wrong, what's required in order to preserve that life until you can get it to a hospital or indeed preserve that life — period. Not everyone has that, but the paramedics of British Columbia do, and they do it, as I've said, every hour of every day of the year. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If there was ever a group that deserved a fair bargaining process, it's this group. They're up there with the firefighters. They're up there with the police. They are services on which we all rely absolutely. We don't expect that when we get sick some neighbour is going to throw us in the back of our family car and drive us up to the hospital. That's not what we expect in British Columbia. We expect that a paramedic is going to be there — calm, rational, experienced and ready — to literally, in many cases, save our lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What we have before us today is a bill that imposes a settlement that — frankly, in light of the work they do, in the calling that is their profession — is pretty modest compensation. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They have been in this difficult position for months and months, knowing that, with the essential services requirements, their strike…. I won't call it a joke. I don't mean to demean it, but it's certainly not a very effective strike. They knew it. The people of British Columbia knew it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The people of British Columbia have made it very, very clear where they stand on this issue. You can't drive through a neighbourhood in my city, in Nanaimo — rich or poor, regardless of ethnicity, regardless of income, regardless of the quality of housing — without seeing some signs supporting the paramedics in every neighbourhood in my constituency. I don't think the citizens of Nanaimo are any different than the other citizens of the province of British Columbia. They support the paramedics. They appreciate the work of the paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If this government is out to win the unpopularity contest, I must say that the introduction of this bill puts them right at the top of the list, the likely ones to win the unpopularity contest. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Turning on a group of workers who are in the midst of a voting process to determine whether they'll accept a collective agreement, turning on workers who are so bound by legislation and regulation that their strike really amounts to visiting public places and sticking up signs and picketing on occasion, and not even picketing in the traditional sense of stopping other workers from working…. To turn on workers like that, with this legislation, is a new low. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's not as if I heard from the minister this morning any evidence that this was even required. Firstly, we don't know what the results of the vote are going to be. Indeed, the paramedics — who every day take on this difficult work in our communities, in our neighbourhoods — may have decided to, in fact, accept the proposal. They may, in fact, have dealt with this issue already, but we don't know that. In its impatience, in its lack of respect for working people and its lack of respect for the bargaining process, in its lack of respect for the work they do, this government has proceeded to bring in this bill, at this time, before we even know whether it's necessary. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In terms of whether it's necessary or not, I expected from the minister this morning some explanation as to why it had to be done now. Where was it? The minister himself said: "The structure is broken." Well, he's right about the bargaining structure from the point of view of the paramedics. It is broken. But if it's broken, by implication of the English language, it is something that might be fixable. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When you impose Bill 21 on the paramedics of this province, I suspect that what you've really done is not broken something that's capable of being repaired and restored and made whole again; you have literally finished collective bargaining for a very long time between the paramedics in this province and the ambulance service. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1055]
We're not going to be able to go back unless this government has the courage and the wisdom to do what the member for Burnaby-Edmonds called on them to do this morning, and that is essentially withdraw from the field. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, in our magical view of chivalry in history, when you call a truce, the bad guys are the ones who break it. It's just not respectable behaviour. There was a vote underway. Did this government sit back, keep its mouth shut and keep its fingers out of the process? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
An Hon. Member: Could it wait two more days? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
L. Krog: Could it wait two more days, the member says. Two more days –– 48 hours — could it wait? No. It had to bring in this legislation. It had to break the truce, if you will. It had to do the dishonourable thing. It couldn't possibly have waited a little while longer and let the process take its natural and lawful course. It couldn't wait. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister said the…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
S. Cadieux: I request leave to make an introduction. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Leave granted.
Introductions by Members
S. Cadieux: It gives me pleasure to introduce 26 grade 11 students from Panorama Ridge Secondary who are here with their teacher, Mr. Darrell Fast, and a number of parents. I'd like to make them welcome. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Debate Continued
L. Krog: I'm delighted by that interruption, because it gives the students an opportunity to see democracy in action. It gives those students an opportunity to see where the rubber hits the road politically in British Columbia and where this side of the House differs from that side of the House, because there is no bill we are likely to have seen this session that I think more clearly demonstrates the differences between the government's view of the work that paramedics do and the right to organize unions and the right to free collective bargaining and the attitude of this side of the House, the opposition. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I come back to what I was saying. The minister says the structure is broken. He's right. But the minister also said that right now there were no adverse outcomes to date, but they had to move in before something happened. Well, I have news for the minister. It may come as a great surprise to the government, but the union went on strike on April 1, 2009. They've been on strike for months. For months. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As for H1N1, I'm not discounting the importance to British Columbians to ensure they don't get sick, but I haven't heard or seen any evidence that demonstrates that the public of British Columbia, notwithstanding that these poor paramedics have been on strike since April 1…. I've not seen any evidence that warrants this extraordinary insult to the bargaining process, this extraordinary interruption to the bargaining process, this extraordinary interruption to the voting process. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If you're going to bring in what essentially amounts to emergency legislation, if you're going to compel the imposition of a contract in a labour relations matter, it's not unreasonable to expect that there is good evidence to warrant that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[L. Reid in the chair.]
Governments don't pass these kinds of bills in the ordinary course of events. The collective bargaining process works because parties are generally satisfied and acknowledge and know that they are expected to resolve their differences themselves. This is not the place to resolve labour relations issues, and when it is, it should be in extraordinary circumstances. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So from this government, so far today –– and I've only had the pleasure of hearing the minister speak –– I haven't heard one bit of evidence to demonstrate why we are here in this chamber this morning debating this bill, why it needs to be imposed on the paramedics –– of all the groups in British Columbia that might have an impact on the Olympics, that might have an impact on the daily lives of British Columbians –– why it is we have to impose this deal. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1100]
You know, there's a line in the Bible: "He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind." Well, I'm not sure what the legacy will be of this interruption with the paramedics, but I'm fairly satisfied that it's not going to be an improvement in labour relations. It is not going to be seen by the workers of British Columbia as an olive branch from a government that is historically viewed as the spokesperson for big business and nobody else. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I don't think the workers in this province making the $6-an-hour training wage and those that benefit with at least the $8 an hour, if they've managed to get through the training period, are going to look at this legislation and say: "Boy, that Liberal government — they're on our side. They really care about working people." I don't think that's the signal when you see them imposing this on the paramedics of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The fact is that no matter how you slice it and dice it and cut it up and examine it and analyze it, we are back to the most basic division in B.C. politics: the B.C. government opposed to workers. It's pure and simple. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know there has been some criticism of the position the union took during the course of negotiations. I accept that in any negotiation, there are two sides. There are two sets of opinions. Not everyone is perfect. Not everyone is always right. Sometimes you look back, and maybe you should have taken something when it was offered instead of resisting. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But all of that negotiating history, whatever issues may arise from that, does not justify what is happening here today. It does not justify it, and it provides no excuse for this government. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister said that we appreciate the work they do. I don't doubt for a moment the sincerity of this government. You know what? When you're lying on the floor of your kitchen with your heart attack, every British Columbian appreciates the work that paramedics do. Every one of us can imagine that situation. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Many of us went to the Heart and Stroke Foundation breakfast this morning. We were reminded of the statistics around health, around heart attacks and strokes and coronary problems. We understand all of that. The message was driven home very effectively this morning. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the minister said that they appreciate the work they do…. Yes, we do. But sometimes thanks isn't enough. Sometimes when you're working on call for that miserable pittance, when you're going out to your fifth or sixth car accident of the day, when you're seeing people in the last moments of their life as you're trying to save their life, it's not such a bad thing to actually pay some decent wages to the people who do that work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I suspect that the majority of members of this chamber wouldn't have the intestinal fortitude or the physical courage or the mental stamina or the ability to be of any use in those kinds of situations. The best that most of us might be would be standing by, hoping and praying that the outcome was positive. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But the people who are paramedics do this all the time. They continue to do it because, it's pretty clear to me — as one of the women who is quoted in some of the material I've got in front of me, about her husband — they love it. They understand how fundamentally important it is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's like people who volunteer for the armed services. You hope and pray you never have to use the skills you learn. You hope and pray you're never placed in a situation of danger or peril, but the reality is that the moment you volunteer and sign up, you know that's exactly where you may end up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Everyone who signs up to be a paramedic, who undertakes that as a career path, knows what they're getting into. They are putting themselves in some of the most awful circumstances that people ever face in their lives, moments of peril and stress and fear, and they do it day in and day out. It takes a special person. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1105]
What's the message — and I come back to it — when the minister says on one hand that we appreciate the work they do and then introduces into this chamber legislation that forces them to accept a contract when we're not even finished the voting process? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
One of the members over here, the member for Burnaby-Edmonds, said it's hypocrisy. That's probably the kindest language one could possibly use in this chamber without receiving censure from the Chair. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is hypocrisy. It is absolute hypocrisy to suggest for a moment that you, on one hand, appreciate the work that the paramedics of British Columbia do and then turn around and bring this legislation in during the course of the voting process. Actions do speak louder than words. I suspect that some British Columbians — cynical British Columbians and even not so cynical British Columbians — somehow think this has something to do with the Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
At a time when we are trying to appeal to the best in our society and encourage the great spirit of international competition and fair play, when we're trying to encourage people who want to do their best and go for the gold, when we're trying to appeal to the best side of British Columbians, there are many amongst us now who are beginning to think that this government — whether it's in this bill imposing a contract on their paramedics so there will be no disruption, whether it's in the signage issues in Vancouver, whether it's in the priorities of government spending, whether it's in forcing people into homeless shelters who may not want to go…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There are some who cynically may believe that this is about whitewashing British Columbia, about putting on the best face possible for the Olympics, instead of rejoicing in a province where dissent is possible, where criticism of government is not a crime and where the collective bargaining process — except in very extraordinary circumstances — is respected and honoured by those who participate in it and by the government whose privilege it is to serve the people of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is about good labour relations practice. It's pretty clear that that isn't this government's long suit. They bring in a bill that will poison for years the relationship between an employer and the people who, in a crisis, we will turn to — and if not us, our friends, our neighbours, our family, the tourists who come to the province of British Columbia, visitors. We're going to poison the relationship with those workers, and for what reason? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As I said earlier, I haven't heard anything from this government that demonstrates to me why we're doing this. Is it to show that the government has a majority, that they can impose their will on people, that they can stamp out those pesky unions whenever they feel like it? Is it to send a signal that "We're in charge"? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
As I said earlier, I don't think it's about a popularity contest, because if there is one thing that the majority of British Columbians agree upon…. They wanted to see a fair agreement for the paramedics. They wanted to see the right thing done, particularly because we are acknowledging in this chamber day after day, through various speeches and legislation and regulation, that we are an aging population where the likelihood of you requiring the services of a paramedic is growing, not diminishing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In my own community the percentage increase from 2002 to 2009…. In north Nanaimo it's 40.87 percent, and in south Nanaimo it's 37.71 percent. In credit to the paramedics in my community, in south Nanaimo those calls are reached within less than nine minutes 69.84 percent of the time, and 53.19 percent of the time in north Nanaimo. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1110]
In other words, when the crisis is there, in the majority of cases in my community, you know that you're going to get served by a paramedic in less than nine minutes after the call is made. That's pretty extraordinary. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are extraordinary people. They're doing their best. I would have hoped that this government would have wanted to do right by them. I would have hoped that this government wouldn't have wanted to essentially blame CUPE for taking a tough approach in their bargaining, because, as I've said, these people have such limited tools in order to try and force a decent settlement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They are so bound by regulation. For them to succeed in getting fair compensation, fair treatment, respect in the workplace, compensation for the on-call time…. Their ability to do so is so incredibly limited. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's not as if the solution for this wasn't clear. The government could have imposed an industrial inquiry commission months ago. All through the campaign, I doubt there was a member elected here, if they bothered to attend all-candidates meetings…. In my constituency they didn't attend all the all-candidates meetings all of the time, but if they did, they would have heard the questions from the floor. They would have seen the paramedics there. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They would have read the editorials in the paper. They would have paid attention to the news. If they'd knocked on people's doors and asked about these issues, they would have heard the same answer: "Solve it. Deal with these people fairly. Get this strike settled. Show respect for these particular workers." That was the message from British Columbians, and it was clear as a bell. It's still clear as a bell. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Yet here we are, a couple of days shy of hearing the vote results, imposing a deal on the workers. Now, the minister says: "Oh well, you know, it's only until March 31, 2010." If it's only until then, why are we here, for starters? But more importantly, if we haven't heard the vote, why are we here? And if we really respect these people, if we really appreciate the work they do — "appreciate the work they do," the minister's language — how are we demonstrating that by doing this? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is absolutely clear, I think, that this government, no matter how hard it tries, no matter how much effort it makes to try and spin themselves as different than that hard-hearted group after the 2001 election who cut up the HEU contract, who punished the workers of this province…. No matter how hard they try, here we are again, November of 2009, eight-plus years into their mandate, doing the same old thing. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When push comes to shove, this government does not respect the workers of British Columbia, and if there was ever a group of workers in British Columbia who deserved more respect than those who go out and try and save our lives, I'm hard-pressed today to think of a group — hard-pressed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm going to conclude with the same plea made by the member for Burnaby-Edmonds, who spoke so eloquently earlier. It's not too late. It's okay to say you're sorry. It's okay to acknowledge this was a mishandled mess from the start by this government. It's okay to step back and withdraw this bill. It's okay to let the collective bargaining process proceed. It's okay to impose an industrial inquiry commissioner without legislation. It's okay just to do the right thing for once for workers in British Columbia. It's okay to acknowledge that this government is and has been wrong. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
B. Routley: The point has been made about the importance of the work of paramedics. I want to put a face on the paramedics' work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1115]
Years ago, back in the 1980s, I was working in the forest industry at the Youbou mill, and I had a good buddy — his name is Mike Barry — who was laid off in the first round of layoffs due to technological change. The veneer plant was shutting down, and they brought in a new system that put people out of work, literally hundreds of people out of work. Mike Barry was the most junior first-aid man at the plant, and he was laid off. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
His family and our family were good friends. We had kids — had that in common — to play with each other and that kind of thing. When Mike decided he was going to train to work for the B.C. Ambulance Service…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
One of the things that I did every day…. I know it's going to be hard to look at me today and imagine that I was a picture of health back in the 1985 area, but back in those days I actually used to run with my friend Mike Barry. The reason that I got up every morning and ran was because my friend Mike Barry was training for the B.C. Ambulance Service because he had lost his job in the forest industry, like so many thousands of others have lost their jobs in British Columbia, and was looking for a new career opportunity. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
He was the kind of guy that cared about the health and safety of other people, that was interested in saving lives, in learning all of the intricacies of that kind of field — and there's a lot to it. You don't just become a paramedic overnight. There is a whole lot of training and going off to the Justice Institute and all of the skills that go into learning how to save lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I think back to those days where we got up every morning, morning after morning, and ran, and then him going off to take his training. I was real proud of my friend Mike going over there and getting his training completed and coming back, and I remember him showing up in that brand-new uniform, working for the B.C. Ambulance Service when he first got a job. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
He got all of the crappy jobs to start with. They send you over to Vancouver right away, and you're put right into some of the most difficult situations you can imagine. I recall talking to my friend Mike about, you know: "What's it like to put your life at risk, to go and deal with people that are infected with — whether it's AIDS or any other — all of the different variety of diseases?" [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I said: "Don't you ever think about what you're doing, putting your own life and maybe your family at risk?" And he said: "Bill, I love it. I love doing my job, because I'm there where the action is. I'm there helping to save lives and helping to make a difference." That's the kind of people that we've got throughout British Columbia. These people aren't some kind of rabble-rousers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I don't mind telling you that I might be one of those rabble-rousers, because when I was a young fella, I remember I started off in a non-union situation, and I found out that when an employer abuses people, they soon get an attitude about the place they work. I had such an employer when I first worked in a shoe repair business years ago, and I saw workers mistreated and literally abused — the way they were verbally harassed as well as in other ways. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It was totally unacceptable the way those workers were treated — literally, workers stolen from. You know, it gives you an attitude at a young age about employers. There ought to be basic fairness in the workplace. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There are good employers, I might add. I'm glad that in my lifetime I've had the opportunity to meet real good employers. You know what they have in common? I've done a little bit of a study on it, because I care about employment and the workplace and spent my life in those kinds of areas. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1120]
I find that one of the number one things that an employer must have is respect. It is at the core of every relationship, whether it's the marriage relationship, whether it's a relationship with friends or family. It is at the core of relationships with the workplace. That's having the respect to understand what it is the other person is doing, to essentially walk a mile in the other person's shoes. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I suggest to you that the government on the other side just doesn't get it, when they could…. In the last couple of years I've watched the spectacle of this government while the Premier was off to Beijing. He was off to Beijing, and on a Friday night they announced the 53 percent wage increase for the Premier and anywhere from a 35 percent to 43 percent wage increase for bureaucrats and ministers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Did anybody forget about that? Well, I'm here to tell you that I didn't forget about that. The people of British Columbia haven't forgotten about it, and you can be sure the paramedics haven't forgotten about it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, if you're going to show leadership and treat people with respect, don't you think that one of the first things you ought to do is lead? Real leadership would be if that government would have taken a 3 percent increase. Then I could understand the minister standing up here and saying: "Well, it's kind of like what other people are going to get, a 3 percent increase." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I understand difficult times. I know that there are forest workers that have taken concessions to hold their jobs. They've given things up. I've been part of that, by the way. In my history, I've known, as a union leader, that when things are tough, you have to sometimes buckle up and take a back seat to what's going on, because you can't wring money out of a dead horse, so to speak; it's got to be a business that's making real opportunities. You've got to have a business model that works. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When you think about what these paramedics are doing every day…. Let's talk about that. Again, my friend Mike Barry, when he was out on a scene of an accident where little children were injured…. I don't want to get too graphic, but I'll tell you it was an awful, awful scene that he came across, and I saw that man reach down and hug his little kids. I think any of us in this House would be reaching down. If we had been out on that accident scene and seen the kind of things that these folks see every day…. They come home, and they give their children an extra hug when they have been involved in one of those kinds of horrific situations where children are involved. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Just think about the idea that you're going to be on standby for 2 bucks an hour. I want you to think, hon. Speaker, about what it would be like in the middle of the night with your 2 bucks an hour to suddenly have that buzzer ring off. You're going to leap out of bed, race for the door, jam those car keys in, race off to the ambulance service, jump in that truck and turn on the light and all of the sirens and head out because you know you've got a job. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know what that job is, hon. Speaker? It's not to go and fix tires — no. It's not to do some political deal. It's to save lives. These people are trained to go to a crisis, and this government…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1125]
You know, I am at a loss for words. I could not believe when I heard that this government, while they're in the middle of a voting process…. It's laughable because it's so unbelievable that a government…. They're making history again. Once again, while they're voting, the people…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They actually sat down and bargained, and even though it was hard bargaining — and they didn't give them, certainly, what they were looking for, the workers were voting on a package. While they're voting on the package, this government comes in with heavy-handed, mean-spirited legislation and is trying to cram it down the throats of people that are literally out there, day in and day out, saving lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, I think about that, and I go: "What is going on in the province of British Columbia? What new low could we possibly stoop to?" But to find ourselves in a position where a government totally ignores not only one of the basic democratic principles — the rights for unions to exist in the first place, to organize themselves, to go into free collective bargaining, as it's called, and to negotiate…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, I could understand…. First of all, the government has got this essential services legislation. I hear from CUPE that the only folks that weren't essential…. There are something like 16 people who weren't essential. Everybody else is so essential that they've got to be ordered back to work. But this government has come up with a new plan because there are these 16 terrible people out there that they think are messing things up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I believe in my heart of hearts that this is more about the Olympics. I mean, to claim it's some pandemic, that they've got some urgent need…. They're going to work every day. The ambulances are out there. They care too much, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Those ambulance drivers and paramedics care too much about the people of British Columbia to abandon them. That is not happening, and this speaker himself admitted to that. He talks about a bunch of parked trucks. Well, what kind of emergency is that? That's not an emergency. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We're talking about a handful of people. For this government to decide to bring down the heavy hammer and force a collective agreement on a group of individuals when…. What are the alternatives? Well, the alternatives are to do what the union really asked for at the end of the day. That's final and binding mediation-arbitration. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I want to talk about that for a minute. I remember a time back years ago when this government brought in binding mediation-arbitration on the union that I was involved in at the time, the forest workers. I can remember being very upset about binding arbitration, because it takes away your democratic rights at the end of the day. You're going to have a third party come up with a decision and tell you what your collective agreement is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's not entirely respectful, but it's at least a better option than the actual boss…. And think about that in this day and age. The boss is the government. They're sitting down in bargaining. Can you imagine the government's own negotiator getting instructions from whomever in government they choose to determine what the boundaries are going to be for a deal? The boss says: "Well, you know, we think that 3 percent will be okay." Then the boss says: "Well, you know, maybe we'll sweeten it up with 4,100 bucks." But now the government comes in. They even are so mean-spirited that they would take away the 4,100 bucks. What is that about? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That kind of treatment is just assuring that they're setting the stage for a climate of mistrust of this government, as if that didn't already exist with what's happened with Bill 29 — you know, this government ripping up the collective agreement. It took the Supreme Court of British Columbia to tell this government that you can't mistreat employees. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1130]
Did they learn anything from that example? Not a thing apparently — nothing. Didn't learn from their running off to the courts and being told by the Supreme Court that, no, you can't just rip up a collective agreement by enacting legislation. Talk about a bully boss being the government of British Columbia is a frightening prospect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There is no crisis that this minister can talk about. You know, I look at some of the stories that I've read, and I want to just point to a few. On February 21, 2009, a woman collapsed at an event in Invermere. The 911 call was picked up by the Kelowna dispatch which was then transferred to the Kamloops call centre of the B.C. Ambulance Service, which in turn then contacted the Invermere unit. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
According to observers, the minimum wait time was 30 minutes for an ambulance. The local councillor, Bob Campsall, said that they could have had her to the hospital within a few minutes. The woman was eventually confirmed to have had a stroke. She was taken to the Invermere and District Hospital before being transferred to Calgary. There's an example of where this government has failed to listen to the ambulance workers on the totality of this crisis. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now, do you think a bunch of people who spend their lives focused on how to save the lives of other people woke up one morning and said: "You know what? We've got nothing else to do. Let's go and strike the government and ask for a big fat raise"? No, that's not what happened. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What happened was they were looking at a number of issues of disrespect, and let me go through the list that they want an industrial inquiry commissioner to have a look at, the kind of things that these scary unionists that somehow need to be crushed by government action.... Oh boy, the government thinks we've got to order them back to work right away. There's some huge, big crisis. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
None of us have quite figured out what crisis they're talking about, when essential services are out there every day. You see their ambulances everywhere, and they're on the job. There are supposedly 16 people that are non-essential that are off the job, and this minister wants the public to believe there's some big panic to order these 16 people back to work. Boy, they must be pretty important indeed. I had no idea that 16 people could be so important. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But back to the issues that they want the industrial inquiry commissioner to look into — issues of staff recruitment, training and retention. Well, there's a list. Staff recruitment, training and retention. Retention is one of the issues I heard about. I talked to some of the paramedics, and they said a lot of the fellows are getting burned out. The amount of hours that they're required to be available on the job.... There's more and more and more stress and pressure on these paramedics all the time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Again, walk a mile in their shoes. Think about sitting at home where you can't go to an event. You can't wander off outside of the range that they give you. You've got to be within a certain call area, and you can't just go on vacation and wander off fishing with your buddies somewhere. You've got to sit by the phone and be available. That's the kind of service that they give. They're available, and when that buzzer goes, they're off. They're off like a shot to give the people of B.C. the kind of service that they expect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They want to talk about staff workload and occupational health and safety issues. You know, one of the things I heard a lot from ambulance and then paramedics was about health and safety issues. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1135]
Just imagine yourself: you're out there on the job, and even if you're in the greatest of physical condition, those paramedics age just like the rest of us. Suddenly they find themselves in a situation where they've got to pack somebody 12 storeys down some set of stairs — or even if it's three to six storeys down a set of stairs, and there are two of you. The person at the heavy end of that is going to be really having a tough time. They suffer a lot of strains, soft tissue issues, those kinds of repetitive strain type of injuries, back injuries and that kind of thing. That's a fact of life. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They're not taking time off just to have fun, hon. Speaker. You may want to suggest that to the minister when he's available. They're not just taking days off for something to do. They care about their jobs. They care about the people of British Columbia, and they spend hundreds of hours training to take care of people, to deal with somebody that's stopped breathing, somebody that's bleeding all over the highway. They're there taking steps immediately. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They get out of that ambulance, and they go right to work. They don't hesitate. They're not thinking about any labour action. It's an absolute myth if anybody thinks that any of these paramedics spends any of their waking moments doing anything other than being prepared to do their job because they are committed to lives. Just like nurses and doctors are committed to saving lives, those paramedics are there committed to saving lives. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They want to talk about rural and remote deployment issues, and I want to talk about an example of that. In Chemainus and Port Renfrew, each of those areas is staffed by people who live outside of the community and commute to their shifts. Port Renfrew has only one ambulance, and Chemainus has two. Port Renfrew, because it cannot supply the necessary trained attendants, is dependent upon commuters. As a result, they're staffed primarily by people living in Victoria. Think about that — people living in Victoria heading out to Renfrew to staff their ambulance. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Imagine if you were living in the remote community of Port Renfrew, you were having a heart attack, and you're waiting for somebody to come out from Victoria to show up. One of the paramedics makes this comment. He says that as a result, it's staffed by people who drive up to two hours to get here from Victoria, depending on weather conditions. Chemainus is also an area dependent on commuters, and 60 to 70 hours a week that they're on call is not unheard of. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In the words of one part-time paramedic: "Would any of us work 70 hours a week and not be a bit grumpy about only being paid for maybe 30 of them?" So they're paid 30 hours, and they're on call and ready to go to work for up to 70 of them. That's the kind of commitment that these paramedics have to their job. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Again, think about what it would be like if you were that paramedic, and you get a call out in Port Renfrew. You get the buzzer here, and you're on the road, and you're heading to Port Renfrew. I wonder what that's like, thinking about what they're going to find at the end of the road, you know. Are they observing all of the speed limits? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You have to think about the fact that they're trained to save lives. They're there caring about getting to the job to save people's lives. They've seen what's happened with other critical services like firefighters and police. Why is it okay for firefighters and police? If they get into a dispute, often it's binding mediation-arbitration. That's the result. That is at least a third party. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1140]
Bringing a third party in at least gives some dignity to the process. At least the union can go with their members and plead with a third party and say: "Look, here's the injustice. Here's why we think that we ought to have this kind of agreement. Here are the kinds of working conditions that other people, whether it's across Canada or certainly in other jurisdictions and other fields that are similar, are getting." I would like to draw that third party's attention to those kinds of conditions and try to make the argument that there ought to be parity with some of those positions. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I ask you to think about…. If you're a firefighter or a policeman or policewoman and you take essentially the same amount of training, the same number of years of training…. Sure, there are different occupations, but you look at these ambulance workers, who are comparing themselves to those roles and saying, "We're falling way behind…." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm not saying that the kind of increase that they asked for is necessarily justifiable in the middle of a difficult time like this. Obviously, prudence is something that has to be looked at, and that's something that a third-party mediator-arbitrator would look at. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
A third party being brought into the process would have brought some dignity and some fairness to the table because it would have allowed all of the players to come to the table. The government side would have presented its terms and conditions on why it believes that at this time it was critical to look at some kind of prudence. At the same time, the union could have come forward and laid out why they were basically fair — the kinds of wages and all of the conditions. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's often not just wages. I don't know too many union people that will have a prolonged and protracted strike only about wages. It's often about working conditions. When I talk to the paramedics about the lack of additional help for what they're going through — the lack of retention and training and that they needed to have a whole lot more paramedics…. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You look at what is happening with the baby boomer problem. Just like any other skill set in the province of British Columbia…. Whether they're a teacher, a lawyer, a doctor — whatever it is that they are — they're aging. Over the next number of years there are going to be a lot of paramedics also leaving the workforce, and they can see those kinds of things coming. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The one thing that you have to have is conditions where people feel respected — that they have the most up-to-date equipment, that all of their vehicles have all of the necessary life-saving apparatus up-to-date and maintained well and available. To rely on a system where people are driving miles and miles to remote communities, I don't think…. You know, a lot of the people of British Columbia assume that they can just ring the phone and there's going to be somebody there. The facts are that that's not so. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Depending on your location and where you're going to be, the wait time gets longer and longer in remote communities. That is a clear factor that is concerning to the paramedics — that kind of issue. They want to see attention paid, and they want a full inquiry to examine service throughout British Columbia. Why should taxpayers in Renfrew be treated different than taxpayers anywhere else? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can recall, when I was a school trustee, the government of the day arguing that a remote area that had a pulp mill shouldn't have the benefit of all of those industrial tax dollars going to that small community. They needed to be spread amongst the large urban centres. Well, if that's true, then the obvious truth is that the remote communities ought to be provided with that same respect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1145]
D. Routley: It's unfortunate to have to rise to speak to the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act, which by itself is a bit of an Orwellian twist of language — isn't it? We are asked to debate a bill intituled the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. It might better be described as "The collective failure to reach an agreement act." "The government's failure to respect its ambulance workers and give them an agreement that they could live with, that they could support their families on" — that, I think, would be a more appropriate title for this bill. Or it's "The government's abject subjugation to VANOC's whim" bill, because clearly, this bill is not being driven out of the public interest of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
If the government had been operating with that imperative, then surely back in March, when the ambulance paramedics requested arbitration, they would have granted that, because they would have, I am sure, been confident that an independent arbitrator could have reached a settlement that would have honoured the interests of the ambulance paramedics but also protected the interests of British Columbians. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They failed to do that. They dragged their feet for months and months, and all the while the ambulance paramedics pleaded with the government and pleaded with British Columbians that their issues needed to be addressed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When we see the ambulances go by with On Strike decals, we are reminded that they have issues related to the conditions of their employment, but we're never reminded by any lack of service. We're never reminded by any failure to appear at an accident scene with the timeliness that we've become accustomed to, because they're dedicated people. They're operating under an essential service order to maintain 100 percent pre-hospital service, which allows, as the previous speaker says, only 16 members not to be declared essential service. Essentially, they have no tools to bring their grievance to the government other than process, and now that process has been so aggrieved by this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The minister claimed to value what our ambulance paramedics do. People in British Columbia value ambulance paramedics. How many times have we all heard people say: "Oh my God, I couldn't be an ambulance paramedic." The devotion to duty it must take for them to function, for them to deliver the service they do when they have to encounter the scenes that they do. It's an unbelievably valuable service that we should never insult and never disrespect the way this government is in bringing this bill forward at this time. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This bill is undermining the most basic principle of free collective bargaining, and that is respect and trust. How can we expect the ambulance paramedics to trust this government? How can we expect them to trust this government when in four days their ballots will be counted? Those are mail-in ballots, so most of them have already been cast. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is an unprecedented tampering, interference and interruption of the free collective bargaining process. Never before in Canada has a government acted in the middle of a vote to force back-to-work legislation. This is a bully tactic by a government that has become accustomed to pushing the people of B.C. around. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Bill 29 — the Supreme Court rules it to be unlawful. That's the labour history of this government, and they're applying the same kind of principles to this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Our ambulance paramedics face, daily, a carnage on our streets that we can only imagine. So many of them face a life beset by the problems of post-traumatic stress disorder from what they witness, so eloquently referred to by the previous speaker — children injured and dying; bloody, horrific highway carnage. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1150]
[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]
This government's treatment of its citizens has forced our streets into the hellishness that we see, has converted our ambulance drivers, in fact, into being social workers and mental health workers — police officers, in a sense. They're alcohol and drug workers. They're doctors. They are required to administer a level of care and an understanding of people that is only acquired through years and years of training, and the human sensitivity it takes for them to care for British Columbians in these circumstances is something that isn't learned in a classroom. It's learned in those scenes by people who care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Now they're being treated by a government that doesn't care, that doesn't care to pay our ambulance paramedics the same respect that every British Columbian pays them. Every British Columbian recognizes the devotion and the sacrifice that they make for their work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They spend an average of five years in part-time work, paying for their training out of their own pockets. It takes five years for them to be able to apply for full-time work, on average, and during that time, they're on call, often at $2 an hour. This isn't just an on call, where you might be required to show up in a few hours for a shift that somebody didn't make. This is instantaneous, on-call readiness to face the kind of trauma that does result in post-traumatic stress disorder and all sorts of sacrifice of spirit. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There is a recruitment and retention problem, but 67 full-time paramedics were hired in 2008 in Vancouver — none this year. This government has created a shortage. This government has created a shortage by refusing to hire and refusing to train and refusing to pay ambulance paramedics a decent living wage. That is what has created a shortage. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There's no shortage of goodwill in the people of B.C. and the people ready to step up to answer that call. The shortage of goodwill is on that side of the House, and it's represented in this bill. It's a continuation of the failure to honour faith that this government has demonstrated to workers of this province for the last seven years, and it's atrocious. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They also face the minister's empty words of consideration that are matched by a reality of action that is an absolute confirmation that they are disrespected. Every time they brought concerns with the structure of their collective agreement to their employer, they were referred to the bargaining table. Look what happened when they went to the bargaining table. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They, in fact, assembled a template to address some of the systematic problems. Does this bill include any of those provisions? No. This bill simply forces them off their strike action and, in my cynical view, answers the call of VANOC, which knows that volunteer ambulance paramedics around this country have refused to answer the call to volunteer for the Olympics for fear of crossing a picket line. Underneath this bill, that's what's in action here. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act — four days before a vote. Unprecedented in the history of Canadian labour relations. Why now? Why now, after months and months of dragging their feet, does this government act this way? Is it throwing down a gauntlet to the rest of the public service? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We heard that in the minister's opening remarks. He said that this is what other public service workers can expect. This level of disrespect, this bully tactic — is that what they can expect? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They could have appointed an independent arbitrator. They should have appointed an independent arbitrator. They were begged during the election to appoint an independent arbitrator. If their interest was truly in addressing the concerns of the system, it was all there for them to do. But they didn't until now when they bring forward this bill. This essential service order has protected the public, but it has also removed any tools of the ambulance paramedics to bring their grievance to government, other than putting decals on their ambulances. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1155]
On Tuesday of last week the LRB decision was used to force three ambulances to do practice runs at an Olympic venue, and those ambulances were staffed at premium rates. On Halloween night there was one ambulance in Ladysmith, none in Chemainus and none in Crofton. There was one advanced-care paramedic ambulance on the south side of Nanaimo and one ambulance on the north side. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So between the big city of Nanaimo, the north side, all the way to Duncan — that includes Ladysmith, Chemainus, Crofton and all the communities in between Ladysmith and Nanaimo: Cedar, Cedar by the Sea — there were three ambulances. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Mr. Speaker, noting the hour, I move adjournment of the debate and reserve my right to speak again. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
D. Routley moved adjournment of debate.
Motion approved.
Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported resolution, was granted leave to sit again.
Hon. B. Penner moved adjournment of the House.
Motion approved.
Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.
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